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 Post subject: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:18 pm 
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I started a thread on the Conceal Carry forum and although there were over a hundred views, I was surprised that I only received a couple comments. Perhaps I am over thinking this but I'm curious of other's opinions.
As most know, here in Delaware there are quite a few steps required to apply not to mention a possible 6 month wait for approval. That said, I was looking at a few states that Delaware accepts reciprocity from and one was WV. Now WV just went to Constitutional Carry, but it's my understanding that if a resident there wants to carry in a state that requires a permit, they can still get have to have the permit from WV. In other words, Delaware isn't going to allow a WV resident to carry in Delaware unless they have a permit from their state.
I looked at WV application and all that's required is they fill out a single page form and take it to their local county Sheriff's Dept. The Sheriff does a background check and if passed sends it on the WVSP. The permit is then granted. I find it interesting that this simple application process is all it takes for a WV resident to conceal carry in Delaware. If this is the case, why should we as residents of Delaware not to be able to fill out a simple form to be able to legally carry in our own state. Just looking for some intelligent conversation on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Because politics. There isn't a good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:04 am 
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where i am, we tried the DE recognition from july 2015-2016.

i haven't heard why it ended, but my speculation is that maybe the guys here were hoping for reciprocity by making the first move with recognizing DE.

recognition ended after a year. not sure if this was the lack of reciprocity was the exact reason.

except the new paper and letter from a few references, we are pretty similar to DE from what i understand, for cc. class, shooting (a blind guy could almost pass it), prints and bgc.


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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:08 am 
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DE is constitutional carry just like WV.

In the DE Bill of Rights it says we have the right to bear arms. At the end of the DE Bill of Rights it says "WE DECLARE THAT EVERYTHING IN THIS ARTICLE IS RESERVED OUT OF THE GENERAL POWERS OF GOVERNMENT HEREINAFTER MENTIONED."

So no DE law regulating the bearing of arms is constitutional because bearing arms is in the DE Bill of Rights and therefore it is out of the powers of government.

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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Owen, I am not a lawyer. but...

Are you imply or stating that CC is legal in Delaware without a Delaware or other recognized concealed carry permit?

perhaps i misunderstood what you are posting.

maybe you're pointing to a difference between CC and OC? where maybe CC is not considered bearing because it is not visible? like a technical difference that makes CC regulate-able for due to a technical difference? or saying that laws in DE that govern CC are illegal/unconstitutional, but still exist, and enforced?

Owen wrote:
DE is constitutional carry just like WV.

In the DE Bill of Rights it says we have the right to bear arms. At the end of the DE Bill of Rights it says "WE DECLARE THAT EVERYTHING IN THIS ARTICLE IS RESERVED OUT OF THE GENERAL POWERS OF GOVERNMENT HEREINAFTER MENTIONED."

So no DE law regulating the bearing of arms is constitutional because bearing arms is in the DE Bill of Rights and therefore it is out of the powers of government.


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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:49 pm 
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I was comparing (complaining?) WV "constitutional carry" versus what the DE Bill of Rights says.

Im not a lawyer either but your last line says what I was alluding to.
"that laws in DE that govern CC are illegal/unconstitutional, but still exist, and enforced?"

But I'm going off topic I think. Sorry to derail your thread Norm. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:10 pm 
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I am pretty certain that the Delaware Supreme Court does not agree with Owen that a requirement for a CC permit is unconstitutional (not opining on the specific requirements for such a permit).


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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Both the Federal and DE State Constitutions recognize the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. Therefore, if DE were to regulate both open and concealed carry of firearms, DE would be in violation of both Federal and State Constitutions.

However, if DE chose to regulate only open carry, or regulate only concealed carry, while leaving the other unregulated, they could rightly claim that citizens' right to keep and bear arms was not being infringed because the other method of carry was allowed.

DE chose to regulate the concealed carry of firearms while leaving the open carry of firearms unregulated! That's how DE has chosen to honor The Right to Keep and Bear Arms as it exists in both the Federal and State Constitutions.

Subjects of many other States, such as PRMD and PRNJ are routinely denied their rights.

Even though DE is not a "shall issue" State, as many others are, at least we don't have to deal with many onerous provisions that were enacted in order to pass their "shall issue" laws. Thankfully, DE's "may issue" CCDW law seems to be quite workable in most cases, very unlike some nearby States.

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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Those states you note, and a few others would, to this layman seem to be total violations.

Also note, some, at least Idaho, and maybe others with constitutional carry are not. Specifically the law in Idaho says residents. And it sounded like STATE residents, of Idaho. Sounding like people that are not idaho residents are not covered by the law.

I have not read the WV law. It would probably be Interesting to check those that have passed the constitutional carry laws lately to see if they cover all US citizens or only those that are US AND the state in question.

When the CC case was in front of the 9th district one of the judges said something like...

Being that California passed laws that prohibit OC since this CC case started, do you (the lawyer for the pro CC side) wish to say that the ban of both OC & CC makes this case even more critical.

The lawyer just let the served up pitch go floating by! Basically saying... naaah, I don't want to make that point. (I paraphrased that)

And norm, also apologies for the tangent. It does seem a worthy topic, maybe a mod would separate the discussions.

Boots wrote:
Both the Federal and DE State Constitutions recognize the right of citizens to keep and bear arms. Therefore, if DE were to regulate both open and concealed carry of firearms, DE would be in violation of both Federal and State Constitutions.

However, if DE chose to regulate only open carry, or regulate only concealed carry, while leaving the other unregulated, they could rightly claim that citizens' right to keep and bear arms was not being infringed because the other method of carry was allowed.

DE chose to regulate the concealed carry of firearms while leaving the open carry of firearms unregulated! That's how DE has chosen to honor The Right to Keep and Bear Arms as it exists in both the Federal and State Constitutions.

Subjects of many other States, such as PRMD and PRNJ are routinely denied their rights.

Even though DE is not a "shall issue" State, as many others are, at least we don't have to deal with many onerous provisions that were enacted in order to pass their "shall issue" laws. Thankfully, DE's "may issue" CCDW law seems to be quite workable in most cases, very unlike some nearby States.


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 Post subject: Re: Delaware resident CCDW application VS non-resident CCDW
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:11 pm 
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pick_six wrote:
Those states you note, and a few others would, to this layman seem to be total violations.
Agreed.

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