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 Post subject: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:19 am
Posts: 3
Hi there,

New to the Deloc forum, been OC for a couple years now. I haven't had a chance to talk with any of my state trooper friends about the OC laws. I know the basics of where not to carry, and cities that have ordinances in effect that trump the OC. My questions are about HOW to carry...

What about loading the firearm?
Can the firearm legally be carried with a round in the chamber? A friend told me the firearm needs to be 3 actions from firing.. Making it impossible if the magazine is loaded into the pistol..
I've looked everywhere online at Delaware law and it does not have hardly any info on open carry, mostly CCDW. Does anyone have a link to the laws about OC, the in depth laws? I know its legal and that's about all I've found.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-Jake


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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:59 am
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Location: Bear
Never heard of the three action requirement in DE law before.

Maybe 1) draw 2) aim 3) press trigger rearward? :)

I carry with one in the chamber.

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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 am
Posts: 86
Some states, particularly out west, have different rules for carrying an unloaded versus a loaded firearm, and "unloaded" is typically defined in terms of 2 or 3 mechanical actions from firing (e.g., rack slide and pull trigger would be two, rack slide, disengage mechanical safety lever, pull trigger would be three). California had no-permit-required open carry of an unloaded firearm until fairly recently, believe it or not; cops in urban counties would stop open carriers and check to see if they were the required number of actions away from being ready to fire. Utah has something similar for permitless carry of an unloaded firearm (or so the instructors at my Utah permit class told me).

Delaware doesn't distinguish between loaded and unloaded firearms. The criminal prohibition on unlicensed concealed carry (11 Del. Code section 1442) refers to "deadly weapons." "Deadly weapons" in turn are defined in 11 Del. C. section 222, as follows:

"(5) "Deadly weapon" includes a "firearm", as defined in paragraph (12) of this section, a bomb, a knife of any sort (other than an ordinary pocketknife carried in a closed position), switchblade knife, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles, slingshot, razor, bicycle chain or ice pick or any "dangerous instrument", as defined in paragraph (4) of this section, which is used, or attempted to be used, to cause death or serious physical injury. For the purpose of this definition, an ordinary pocketknife shall be a folding knife having a blade not more than 3 inches in length."

And paragraph (12), the definition of a "firearm," reads as follows:

"(12) "Firearm" includes any weapon from which a shot, projectile or other object may be discharged by force of combustion, explosive, gas and/or mechanical means, whether operable or inoperable, loaded or unloaded. It does not include a BB gun."


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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 am
Posts: 86
There is also a link to a compilation of Delaware laws relating to firearms here:

http://www.deloc.org/docs/Delaware_Firearms_Laws.pdf

Be warned, this compilation is from 2012, so it is a little out of date in certain respects. (E.g., doesn't include the "universal background checks" that were foisted on us in 2013 and have made such a dent in crime rates and the ability of bad guys to get guns...)


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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:19 am
Posts: 3
Thank you California Exile.

I have read through that article before, and several others over the last few months. I am just looking for clear written rules for open carry beyond the fact that it IS legal. If none exist, than the above statement about "deadly weapons" I assume will be used about the legality of the weapon being loaded/unloaded. But one would think that with 10,000 codes for gun laws in the state that there would at least be a small section on OC.

That being said, I believe if the state is obviously an OC state, and no codes/laws clearly distinguish a firearm legal to OC only while being unloaded, than OC while loaded is presumed legal..

I just hate to carry a firearm and not have 100% certainty of the OC laws. Makes for a possible big issue if you miss one thing..


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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:30 pm
Posts: 1523
Location: Newark, DE
80Royalty wrote:
Thank you California Exile.

I have read through that article before, and several others over the last few months. I am just looking for clear written rules for open carry beyond the fact that it IS legal. If none exist, than the above statement about "deadly weapons" I assume will be used about the legality of the weapon being loaded/unloaded. But one would think that with 10,000 codes for gun laws in the state that there would at least be a small section on OC.

That being said, I believe if the state is obviously an OC state, and no codes/laws clearly distinguish a firearm legal to OC only while being unloaded, than OC while loaded is presumed legal..

I just hate to carry a firearm and not have 100% certainty of the OC laws. Makes for a possible big issue if you miss one thing..

First, we do not have "OC laws". OC is de facto lawful because there are no laws prohibiting it. There is only a law prohibiting carrying a deadly weapon concealed without a license to do so.
Quote:
11 Del. C. §202(a) No conduct constitutes a criminal offense unless it is made a criminal offense by this Criminal Code or by another law.

There is no law saying you can't OC (assuming one is able to lawfully possess firearms in the first place - e.g. not a felon or such, and not in a place prohibited like jails or state parks) and there is no law saying you can't have your gun loaded while OC (although long guns can't be loaded in motor vehicles). Deadly weapons are considered such whether a gun is loaded or not, operable or inoperable.
Quote:
It is quite immaterial whether a revolver is loaded or not, because such an instrument is commonly regarded as a deadly weapon without regard to its condition. If the absence of bullets would make the weapon a harmless one, then any condition that would prevent its being used at the time injuriously would have a like effect. State v. Quail, 28 Del. 310, 92 A. 859 (1914).

I highly recommend giving the pdf linked above a thorough read. Feel free to come to one of our meetings too!

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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:19 am
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I would love to attend a meeting! Are they upstate or around the Dover area usually?


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 Post subject: Re: OC Rules
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:30 pm
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Location: Newark, DE
80Royalty wrote:
I would love to attend a meeting! Are they upstate or around the Dover area usually?


They’re usually in New Castle County. There were downstate meetings but fell inactive. Last I checked all the city ordinances prohibiting open carry have been found unconstitutional and stricken from the books. You can open carry in Newark and Dover for example.


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