Current events, goings-on in Delaware and anything else of interest here.
 #107098  by Kuntryboy816
 
NormH3 wrote:So you still need a CCW to open carry...correct? Sorry, I don't read legal-eaze very well.
Legal-eaze... there's an oxymoron! :troll:
 #107099  by Pjd832
 
NormH3 wrote:So you still need a CCW to open carry...correct? Sorry, I don't read legal-eaze very well.
i see nothing in there that changes the status quo .... it mainly reads on prohibition and exceptions to carry and possession in municipal buildings
 #107101  by Boots
 
Pjd832 wrote:reading through the above link i don't agree that anything has changed regarding open carry ....
Actually, I think you are correct. Dover code never did actually prohibit OC, but the confusing language which has now been deleted could easily be misinterpreted and result in an illegal arrest. Remember, Open carry is legal because code has not made it illegal.

Here is part of the now deleted Dover code. (Emphasis added) ....
(b) License. The weapons prohibited in subsection (a) of this section shall be permitted upon the grant of a license therefor, if required, in the following situations:

(1) On owner's property. Possession within the possessor's own domicile or business.

(2) Other license or permit. Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that weapon or a permit issued by the chief of police.
Notice the "if required" part. A license is not required for open carry. Also, notice that the license being referred to is Delaware's CCDW, a license that merely allows you to carry your deadly weapons concealed. It's not a license to have weapons, or to carry them openly, but merely a license to carry them concealed.

Because of the 2A, both open and concealed carry cannot be controlled because it would be a blatant violation of that right. Therefore, DE chose to control only the concealed carry of arms, but not open carry. To get around (temporarily) Dover's badly worded statute, the chief of police had the policy of issuing an "Open Carry Permit" by letter to all those that asked, as long as they were not otherwise prohibited.

With the newly reworded code, Dover now falls in line with the rest of the State regarding open carry AND codifies lawful concealed carry in Municipal Buildings.

I applaud Dover for getting this cleared up!

Now if we could only rein in our U.S. Senators and our Rep in the House....
 #107102  by David
 
Have to agree with Boots on this one. Additionally, and for usual clarity IANAL, it would seem that a grandfathered ordinance, once modified, would no longer be grandfathered.

Has anyone seen anything from DSSA about this? Not that they are big, or even little, promoters of open carry.
 #107135  by MrCoolDale
 
I thought it wasn't the ordinance that was grandfathered, but the city. The City of Dover existed before the State of Delaware and thus its governing body may supersede that of Delaware in many matters. At least, that's how I understood it.
 #107136  by astro_wanabe
 
Delaware has 2 preemption statutes, one for counties [9 Del. C. §330(c)] and the other for municipalities [22 Del. C. §111]. It was Dover's old ordinance that was grandfathered under 22 Del. C. §111(a) because it was passed prior to July 4th, 1985. The new ordinance prohibiting OC in municipal buildings is allowed under 22 Del. C. §111(b) which was passed just last year. AFAIK by repealing the old ordinance in its entirety they lost the grandfather status for it, and wouldn't be able to re-enact it.

ETA: Also the Delaware Firearms Laws pdf will need to be updated to include the new exemption for banning OC in municipal buildings and to add all the cities that decide to pass such ordinances.
 #107160  by Jonathan
 
Does anyone know if this repeal applies to Dover's grandfathered ban on weapons in their parks, as well? IIRCC, that ordinance preceded the preemption date of July 4th, 1985. It would be nice to be able to carry in the parks.
 #107168  by Boots
 
Jonathan wrote:Does anyone know if this repeal applies to Dover's grandfathered ban on weapons in their parks, as well? IIRCC, that ordinance preceded the preemption date of July 4th, 1985. It would be nice to be able to carry in the parks.
That part, regarding carry in parks, was not 'grandfathered.' The part of the code deleted and re-written is Sec. 70-2. - Weapons generally, which has nothing to do with parks.
 #107173  by Jonathan
 
That part, regarding carry in parks, was not 'grandfathered.' The part of the code deleted and re-written is Sec. 70-2. - Weapons generally, which has nothing to do with parks.[/quote]

I was referring to the ordinance prohibiting firearms in Dover parks being grandfathered under Delaware's preemption statute. I don't have time to look it up right now, but I am pretty sure that ordinance has been in effect since about 1975. I guess that carrying in Dover Parks is still legally prohibited.
 #107175  by Boots
 
Jonathan wrote:
That part, regarding carry in parks, was not 'grandfathered.' The part of the code deleted and re-written is Sec. 70-2. - Weapons generally, which has nothing to do with parks.
I was referring to the ordinance prohibiting firearms in Dover parks being grandfathered under Delaware's preemption statute. I don't have time to look it up right now, but I am pretty sure that ordinance has been in effect since about 1975. I guess that carrying in Dover Parks is still legally prohibited.
I see I wasn't clear in my statement. What I meant was that the recently deleted and re-written code (Sec. 70-2) had nothing to do with parks or with preemption.

Unchanged, as far as I know, is Title 22. Therefore, if Dover had an ordinance regarding firearms and parks before 7/4/1985, it would still be valid unless it was otherwise changed or deleted in the normal course of business....

Title 22. Municipalities

Chapter 1. General Provisions

111. Limitation on firearm regulations. The municipal governments shall enact no law, ordinance or regulation prohibiting, restricting or licensing the ownership, transfer, possession or transportation of firearms or components of firearms or ammunition except that the discharge of a firearm may be regulated; provided any law, ordinance or regulation incorporates the justification defenses as found in Title 11. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to invalidate municipal ordinances existing before July 4, 1985, and any ordinance enacted after July 4, 1985, is hereby repealed.
(IANALNDIPOOTV)