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 Post subject: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 08, 2019 5:52 pm
Posts: 2
Hello All, I am new to this site and have a question that a LEO friend can’t give a definitive answer. Can a person with a CCDW permit carry a firearm on school property, Public or Private ? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: New Castle, DE
First and foremost, police are in no way an expert on law and should never be relied upon for legal advice.

Here's a link to the Delaware code covering this subject:
https://delcode.delaware.gov/title11/c005/sc07/

It is currently believed that CCDW holders are exempt from the safe school zone laws, but this has never been tested in court. So, we don't have a definitive ruling. Which means, consult a lawyer and proceed at your own risk.

The law states:
Quote:
Delaware Title 11: § 1457 Possession of a weapon in a Safe School and Recreation Zone; class D, E, or F felony; class A or B misdemeanor.


And it uses the following for how you will be charged:
Quote:
(1) Section 1442. — Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.


However, according to § 1442:
Quote:
§ 1442 Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.

A person is guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon when the person carries concealed a deadly weapon upon or about the person without a license to do so as provided by § 1441 of this title.


All of this boils down to carrying a firearm in a Safe School and Recreation Zone will land you a felony charge under § 1442. However, CCDW permit holders are exempt from § 1442, because the underlying charge is carrying a concealed deadly weapon without a permit to do so.

It's a weird grey area.

_________________
Basic Gun Safety by Jeff Cooper:
1) All guns are always loaded
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond it


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:03 am
Posts: 146
Everything McCool Dale said is correct, and a good reading of Title 11, Sec. 1442 & 1441, and 1457. A CCDW license covers you driving past (within 1,00 feet of a 'Safe School Zone', both State and federal law, since Delaware requires a background check).
HOWEVER, most schools have a prohibition on carrying a weapon on school grounds, and therefore could ask you to leave, be escorted off the premises, or even arrested (potentially) for trespassing.
I am not a lawyer, but this is my read on these laws / situations.


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:12 am
Posts: 2
Location: New Castle, DE
josephjanes wrote:
Everything McCool Dale said is correct, and a good reading of Title 11, Sec. 1442 & 1441, and 1457. A CCDW license covers you driving past (within 1,00 feet of a 'Safe School Zone', both State and federal law, since Delaware requires a background check).
HOWEVER, most schools have a prohibition on carrying a weapon on school grounds, and therefore could ask you to leave, be escorted off the premises, or even arrested (potentially) for trespassing.
I am not a lawyer, but this is my read on these laws / situations.



I am certainly no expert, or a lawyer, but I believe you should only be charged with trespassing if you do not leave, after being asked to.

Again, I could be totally incorrect, but this is my understanding.


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: New Castle, DE
Wayne, you are correct. You can only be charged with trespassing if you enter or tamper with property knowing you are not authorized to do so (if you had to bypass a lock, climb a gate, etc.), or remaining on the property after learning you don't have the right or permission to be there (being asked to leave, discovering "No Trespassing" signs, etc.)

_________________
Basic Gun Safety by Jeff Cooper:
1) All guns are always loaded
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond it


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:46 am 
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Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 6:07 am
Posts: 1
MrCoolDale wrote:
Wayne, you are correct. You can only be charged with trespassing if you enter or tamper with property knowing you are not authorized to do so (if you had to bypass a lock, climb a gate, etc.), or remaining on the property after learning you don't have the right or permission to be there (being asked to leave, discovering "No Trespassing" signs, etc.)


This sounds logical to me, but do you have some proof (link to law page)

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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: New Castle, DE
featuresprize wrote:
This sounds logical to me, but do you have some proof (link to law page)


Here is the legal definition from USLegal.com:
https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-trespass/

USLegal.com wrote:
Criminal trespass refers to an unlawfully entry by a person into a private property of another person without permission. Any person so entering the property without permission is held to have committed the offence of criminal trespass. Criminal trespass can occur when:

1. a person enters someone else’s property without permission; and

2. a person remains in the property.

Following is an example of a state statute (Utah) defining criminal trespass:

Pursuant to Utah Code Ann. § 76-6-206 criminal trespass means

“(1) As used in this section, "enter" means intrusion of the entire body.

(2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section 76-6-202, 76-6-203, or 76-6-204 or a violation of Section 76-10-2402 regarding commercial obstruction:

(a) the person enters or remains unlawfully on property and:

(i) intends to cause annoyance or injury to any person or damage to any property, including the use of graffiti as defined in Section 76-6-107;

(ii) intends to commit any crime, other than theft or a felony; or

(iii) is reckless as to whether his presence will cause fear for the safety of another;

(b) knowing the person's entry or presence is unlawful, the person enters or remains on property as to which notice against entering is given by:

(i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(ii) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or

(iii) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or

(c) the person enters a condominium unit in violation of Subsection 57-8-7(7).

(3) (a) A violation of Subsection (2)(a) or (b) is a class B misdemeanor unless it was committed in a dwelling, in which event it is a class A misdemeanor.

(b) A violation of Subsection (2)(c) is an infraction.

(4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and

(b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property”.

_________________
Basic Gun Safety by Jeff Cooper:
1) All guns are always loaded
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond it


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 Post subject: Re: Concealed carry on School property?
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:49 am
Posts: 606
Location: NOT Bear - Christiana Area
Thank you Mr. Google.

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