Discuss the when's and where's of the next range trip.
 #47265  by WPCatfish
 
Just Bill wrote:.


Dennis, it is my understanding of proper NRA range procedure, that no gun is allowed to leave the shooting line loaded. Especially in the situation you described. Is Omalanden too lax or is my Training Counselor wrong??
My guess is that if it can't be cleared on the line, it has to go somewhere.

I had a situation at Shooter's Choice a few years back where a new Beretta Stampede (1873 SAA Clone) cylinder jammed on me. Hammer was down on an expended round, two live rounds and two expended in the cylinder. One of their guys removed it from the line for me and brought it to their gunsmith who was able to get the cylinder out.

ALso, in a SASS competition, a shooter had his pistol fail with the hammer cocked over a live round. Range officer removed that, muzzle up and his thumb between the hammer and the round, and the gunsmith worked on it at the unloading table with the weapon facing a dirt berm.
 #47286  by Jeepflexin
 
Just Bill wrote:.

Dennis, it is my understanding of proper NRA range procedure, that no gun is allowed to leave the shooting line loaded. Especially in the situation you described. Is Omalanden too lax or is my Training Counselor wrong??
Your counselor is correct. That being said the safety officer can't physically make you leave your gun on site; with that in mind I would have advised the shooter that the hammer be taped back in a fashion that would keep it from accidentally falling, I'd also advise it is best to have a gunsmith come retrieve the firearm from the range. Some ranges actually have a special lockable compartment for just such an occasion. Of course without looking through Omalanden's SOP I can't speak as to what their procedure is.


The correct NRA endorsed and taught method is no firearm leaves the line unless unloaded.
 #47306  by Just Bill
 
It is not my intention to be over critical, but SAFETY is the number one objective, ALWAYS. What if they were transporting that gun and it went off in the trunk, through the side, and went who knows where.................not a good thought. EVERYONE is supposed to have fun, and go home with no additional holes.
 #47318  by Boots
 
Jeepflexin wrote:... Of course without looking through Omalanden's SOP I can't speak as to what their procedure is.

The correct NRA endorsed and taught method is no firearm leaves the line unless unloaded.
In a discussion at Elk Neck Range, I was told that since it is illegal to transport a loaded firearm in MD, a gunsmith would be required to come to the range to repair the problem. :shock: :banghead:

Actually, we were discussing the issue of having a rifle with a live round stuck in the chamber, but I'm sure the same would apply to any weapon that could not be unloaded, because of the wording of Maryland's laws (perhaps a felony?).
 #47326  by Jeepflexin
 
In a discussion at Elk Neck Range, I was told that since it is illegal to transport a loaded firearm in MD, a gunsmith would be required to come to the range to repair the problem. :shock: :banghead:
That is the SOP at ENSF, however we are not permitted to by force or threat keep someone's firearm. Basically if they want to take it and leave we can not stop them.
Actually, we were discussing the issue of having a rifle with a live round stuck in the chamber, but I'm sure the same would apply to any weapon that could not be unloaded, because of the wording of Maryland's laws (perhaps a felony?).
That mirrors the discussion we had during the ENSF training class, of course it is only a felony if the individual gets pulled over, searched and the round stuck in the weapon is noticed. I can't imagine some one in that situation being dumb enough to give a cop probable cause to search their vehicle.
 #47327  by phlydude
 
when I say this thing was jammed, it was JAMMED - the hammer was half cocked and the cylinder was between the broken casing and another. You couldn't cock it, de-cock it, spin the cylinder, open the cylinder - NOTHING worked. I honestly don't know how my father opened it once he got home.

He took it to a gunsmith and they couldn't get it open either. Don't know if they weren't that good of a gunsmith or if they were afraid of the rounds being live.

Interesting situation and not looking for anyone to judge...
 #47336  by astro_wanabe
 
[rant]
Just Bill wrote:It is not my intention to be over critical, but SAFETY is the number one objective, ALWAYS. What if they were transporting that gun and it went off in the trunk, through the side, and went who knows where.................not a good thought. EVERYONE is supposed to have fun, and go home with no additional holes.
Before I begin I'd just like to note that there's no way in :censored: I'm leaving my firearms with some random RO (or anyone else for that matter) who I don't personally know and trust.

Now for your comment, I think you're a tad over-obsessed with safety. Yes, that's possible. If the firearm was secured with a physical barrier to the firing pin accidently striking a live primer (cylinder jammed w/o live primer under firing pin, an exposed hammer tied down, rod inserted through cylinder closest to frame to prevent rotation, etc) then what makes the level of risk higher than a firearm carried Condition 0 (GLOCK) in a holster that covers the trigger gaurd? In both cases the firearm won't simply go off by itself or by being bumped into. There will ALWAYS be risk (lack of complete safety) and you can play the what-if game to your heart's content, but what's really important is your ability to MANAGE the risk.

If you're holding that the risk of tranporting a secured loaded firearm is so high as to be unmanageable then you've completely given up on OC, CC, and transporting loose (bulk) ammo. You'd also give the Brady Bunch all the ammo they ever needed to ban storing loaded firearms in your own home for self defense.

Actually I'm surprised the Brady Bunch hasn't tried to capitalize on the ways pro-gun people disarm EACHOTHER. If we're competent enough to carry loaded guns in public and to use them in self defense without commiting mass murder of bystanders, why is it assumed we lose that competency when entering a gun show or firing range? Perhap's I'm just more aware of these imaginary lines of stupidity due to my advocacy work against "free-fire" zones.

If a firearm has been secured with a physical barrier preventing discharge and human error isn't involved (it isn't being carried in the hand) then IMO the risk of a discharge has been minimized to an acceptable level. If the firearm is being held in the hand then it is the holder's responsibility to ensure it isn't pointing in a direction where accidently bumping the trigger would hurt someone. As long as this is complied with the risk is again minimized to an acceptable level. [/rant][sorry for being so opinionated, it runs in the family]
 #47337  by capnpirate
 
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

+1, good sir. +1.
 #47339  by Condition1
 
astro_wanabe wrote:[...] firearm carried Condition 0 (GLOCK) in a holster that covers the trigger gaurd? [...]
There is no condition zero for Glocks. Condition zero means cocked, round in the chamber and safety off - Glocks are always either half-cocked or uncocked, and no thumb safety. Jeff Cooper came up with the five conditions of readiness for 1911s.
astro_wanabe wrote: [...]If a firearm has been secured with a physical barrier preventing discharge and human error isn't involved (it isn't being carried in the hand) then IMO the risk of a discharge has been minimized to an acceptable level. If the firearm is being held in the hand then it is the holder's responsibility to ensure it isn't pointing in a direction where accidently bumping the trigger would hurt someone. As long as this is complied with the risk is again minimized to an acceptable level. [...]
+2.
 #47348  by astro_wanabe
 
Thanks guys :)
Condition1 wrote: There is no condition zero for Glocks. Condition zero means cocked, round in the chamber and safety off - Glocks are always either half-cocked or uncocked, and no thumb safety. Jeff Cooper came up with the five conditions of readiness for 1911s.
Thanks I'd just forgotten that Glocks don't have a fully cocked way of being carried. I was just trying to give an example of a firearm in the condition you described.