Discuss the when's and where's of the next range trip.
 #56861  by Boots
 
knohope wrote:... Give it rest dude…
Never tell anyone to shut up. It makes it look like you lost the argument and can't answer back with any valid points.
 #56879  by Marker
 
knohope wrote:Hey Marker, by your assertion I should be using a rotary telephone and driving a K car since that is what most of the govt' institutions of the world still utilize.

Carefully read Mr. Skellington and Tac P's posts.

Although your well scripted posts might hold water with some readers, you can only read these so many times before they start to fade. I'm sure that you have cut and pasted these many times on the fanboy pages and the anti Glock sites that you have visted. I am also surprised it took you so long to get up on your soap box. What was it; six days from the time you joined until you went on the offensive? I'm impressed by your restraint :lol: .

Give it rest dude…
Actually no. Believe it or not, I'm a member of one other forum. You can search the internet high and low. Go to any Glock forum you want. Will not find me there. I use the same name here as I do on the other. I use my real last name because I don't have anything to hide. And, perhaps your ability with words isn't like mine but everything I post is original, goes from my mind to the keys, which is why it is so passionate usually, it's raw emotion as I feel it. Again you could go to any forum any where and you will find nothing like this by me. I don't go to to forums like AR 15, or Glocktalk, or whatever because I'm not interested in a forum that is geared towards one thing, I like diversity which is why I actually chose to join this site. I don't really care who likes me or who doesn't. I have no hard feelings towards anyone, but I believe in what this site is promoting and I want to be a part of it.

Honestly. I didn't go on the offensive as you insinuate. Was never my intention to get into such a heated debate so soon, if I didn't to just happen across Bluedog's post about his 1911, I wouldn't have reacted the way I did. Carefully read Tac's and Skellington's post? Do you think I haven't because my position hasn't changed? Tac, nor Skellington who both seem to be intelligent fellas with knowledge of the subjects at hand presented anything that I didn't already know or that was so ground breaking that I was just blown away.

And I said SO many times that I DO NOT HATE 1911's. They are a wonderful firearm. I PERSONALLY, feel they are no the best option for self defense for a civilian who is CC. YES it is my OPINION. But it is one that I believe in because after years of research and from my own experiences I choose a G19 for my everyday carry. My first 2 hand guns were a Springfield 1911 and a CZ-52. People think I'm drunk on the Glock aid but it couldn't be any further from the truth. I just believe in them. It took me a while to get on the glock train.

Honestly, I got the 1911 because I was drunk on the belief that the only acceptable caliber for SD was .45 period. I saw the pundits for 9mm stressing that it really is the perfect caliber and they would give a boat load of reasons why, but I wasn't listening. I was like no way, all these big shots at the range carry 1911's and that's what I'm gonna carry too! So I gave the 1911 a BIG chance, carried it for a while, made me feel cool... But then as I trained more and more and I started to notice inherent flaws of the 1911 for CC. It was not made with CC in mind. I don't care about OC. The 1911 has a lot of harsh angles and edges that do not make for a clean CC drawstroke. Can it be done? Of course. But at the range is one thing, on the street, when seconds count, that is another. I know that certain PD's and yes even our own SF operators use them, but their mission is different than mine. They are not drawing from CC. So the more I carried the 1911 the more I started to realize it wasn't ideal, at least for me. Also 8 rounds went so damn quickly. I did not like having to make mag changes so often, and after only 4 shots half my mag was half depleted. Every time you mag change that is time your weapon is out of the fight. To me not good things for self defense. When I CC and I'm just going into town I usually have the mag in my weapon and then when I exit vehicle (which is my own personal rolling armory) I take one extra mag. With my G19 I am able to have 31 rounds on me between the weapon and the extra mag. I happen to like this. With my 1911 I would have needed to carry 3 mags plus the one in the weapon. That is not appealing to me for CC at all. Not to mention .45 is heavy as shit in comparison to 9mm. Whatever you can carry in .45 I carry twice as much in 9mm. Those were pretty heavy facts that lead me to where I am today.

So Then the more I started to dislike my 1911 and I was able to separate my self from the "All hand guns should be .45, and all .45's should be 1911's, yee ha cowboy mentallity" I still hadn't totally separated my self from the romance of the.45, and this will prob come to a HUGE surprise to some of you, I was starting to get off the 1911 kool aid, but not the .45 kool aid, so I sold the 1911, and guess what? I got one of the original XD .45's. So you see I have carried both, and I was on the XD kool aid. I bought into the Gimmicks around the XD weapon. I speak so passionately about it because I carried one for a year. And I learned all I needed to about them in that year.

It wasn't until I became more subjective, and started to become much more oriented towards mindset, tactics and skills, and less about the gear I was carrying. I found gear is the last thing on the list. Mindset, Tactics, Skill then Gear. I'd rather fight with a lion with a .22 not a Lamb with an AR. When I was able to open myself to a whole new world of what others were doing, guys who carried a weapon because the were in firefights and such, sometimes on a daily basis. That's when I started to notice a trend. Most were using 9mm, most were using Glocks, and most were using Glock 19's.

I would read all the stuff on line from all the XD bashing Glock lovers, and I hated it. I would defend my XD like it was delivered to me by the Holy hand of God himself. But, when I would defend it I realized, man, there is really nothing in it's defense against Glocks. What has it done? But I hadn't abandoned ship yet, I knew that all they were saying was just haters drunk on the Glock aid. But the more I researched and the more that I hung around these guys whose opinion I really started to respect, I realized, maybe I should re-evaluate my side arm choice yet again. You see. I got a 1911, because IT was POPULAR. I did ZERO research. I just saw it on so many magazines and used by all the EXPERTS so it had to be perfect and the right gun for me, but it wasn't... then I got an XD because THEY were POPULAR, and new, and the experts were calling this unproven weapon the "Glock Killer" and the replacement to all polymer pistols as we knew it so I had to be a part of that new moment in firearm history! But none of that happened and after carrying one, yet again the wrong weapon for me...

So then, I said you know what, I'm taking this into my own hands this time. I keep seeing this trend towards Glock and I was not interested in being a part of another trend, but they were SO popular, and not just here in the US but EVERYWHERE. I wanted to know what made something so basic, so popular. So I started researching like a maniac I overturned every nook and cranny on Glocks that I could find, the good the bad and the ugly. And again I started to notice a trend the good far outweighed the bad. They were used by so many and for so many different applications that I knew there had to be something to this beyond just popularity. I realized, like I said yesterday, they are so popular because of what they are, such a simplistic proven platform. Tac said that the 1911 is also battle proven and has a long history. I'm aware. I'm also aware that there have been improvements to the Glock, that is why there is 4 gens. But It's the simplicity and abundance of the Glock that attracts me. I like carrying something everyone else does because as I stated before, if my Glock breaks, I bet that same day it can be up and running again from just about anywhere on the planet. That is comforting. I can put mags from a Glock 17 in my 19, that is another abundant firearm, and allows me two more rounds per mag. These are the reasons for me choosing glock, versatility and compatibility. I strictly think in worse case, self defense, SHTF scenarios and what weapon gives me the ability to be the most versatile and stay in the fight longer. That is also what lead me to choose Glock. I got to the point to where I was so overloaded with Glock info, that I probably could have been considered an expert, lol.

So you see I didn't just wake up one day on the Glock aid because they were popular or I'm a fanboy. That is what I did with the other two weapons. I made sure this time, and when I bought one it was because I was a believer in the product and how it fit MY needs better than anything else. I use all of the facts of them being popular and EVERYTHING else because in the world of firearms, and to me, that means something.

The reason that I got the way I did is because it is apparent that the 1911 is the big dog here on this forum, and that is fine. But in someone like Bluedog, who has only been into guns for about a year I think he said, he went out and spent nearly 400$ on a gun that is now only a range weapon. I am not saying that he did it because of this forum, he is his own man, but when your a member of something like this and you don't have a lot of prior knowledge, you tend to go with what is POPULAR. If he is constantly seeing all of this praise for 1911's then he naturally will begin to think he needs one too, and he made a bad choice just for the sake of getting a 1911. Nothing wrong with getting one, but had he waited on when he could have gotten a better one, than this whole thread would never began.

So I saw it as an opportunity for myself to be the against the grain guy, throw out something different, a radical opinion, maybe, but I gave many reasons with solid info to maybe get some others who may be new to weapons and come here and think the only thing to carry is a 1911. A lot of folks who are new to guns really do go with what is popular, they do NO research they don't hold and test everything out there, they just go by the logic, everyone I know carries 1911/Glock/XD so I must as well. Yes I am making a case for just Glocks, but it is for good reason and I also state WHY I don't recommend these other weapons. Yes it's my opinion, but at least it's a strong one that may get people thinking differently. My philosophy is more than just pushing Glocks, it's about finding what is right for you, spending your money wisely, and not getting caught up in the "hype" of certain weapons, and not settling. That may seem a contradiction to my post, but I'm not on the fence about anything. I don't say "oh they are all great guns, now lets just be friends!" I have a strong stance, I believe in it and I tell people why. They are getting a true off the fence opinion from someone which is a lot more than some can say. They read my post and say man this guy LOVES Glocks, maybe I should see why, then if they look and aren't a believer, well at least they looked first.

When I first got into hand guns, I didn't know anyone or meet anyone who was TRULY passionate about one weapon in particular, whether it was passionate good, or passionate bad. I walk into a gun store, ask about a glock, or a 1911, or an xd. And I would get a lot of the same answers, "they're all good, can't go wrong with any of them". Well how does that logic help someone make a decision? They are all good (maybe), but not all good for the same thing. If maybe one person had asked, "what do you plan on using it for" or made a strong case for one over the other, then maybe I would have made the right choice for me to start with.

You would prob be surprised how many people go on a internet forum, see that one gun rules the roost and that's the one they buy. Well if someone comes here and sees so much about 1911's and then their is this one crazy guy supporting glocks over 11's and xds, and I am backing it up with many facts (doesn't matter if some of the facts are popularity driven) as well as experienced opinion, also while making comparisons to the other weapons as well, then maybe that person goes and does a little comparison shopping for themselves first, and they just don't jump on what is popular on one particular site, whether it's this forum or another.
 #56884  by Mr.Skellington
 
Well we're making some progress here if we can admit its an opinion supported by emotion and feelings rather than facts. Even strongly held opinions or regurgitated opinions are still just opinions.

Application of use is a topic worth discussing. A combat handgun made for the battlefield could be argued to be not be the best for EDC on the 'civilized' streets which by the same token means the target range is its own animal. One example of miss-application is some trigger jobs are strictly for the range as they are just too light for EDC and present safety hazards (see manufacturers disclaimers). That's where the safeties come into play, which is of course an just an opinion of mine and may carry no water with others. But in the end its my opinion which counts the most to whom I care the most about.

I can respect that you hold a strong opinion and attempt to defend it (even though it wasn't threatened) but I'm not completely convinced that you have made your own mind up about your choice of firearm. Over and over again you continue to cite other people as your reason for choosing your firearms. Listening to all the hype and braggarts poisons the well of your own mind. By your accounts it seems you have allowed yourself to be influenced into nearly every firearm purchase by others opinion.

You do present a few opinions which I share, in short they are: Parts availability, commonality of caliber, mass production = supply and cost effective, aftermarket and holsters supply and a few more which are implied. Beyond those cause and effect of popularity the other opinions are no more valid to others than stating that a gun fits your hand better = who cares its my hand that will be holding it.

A more technical and fact oriented topic would be the difference of poly barrels vs plain rifled barrels. Do you do any reloading?
 #56885  by Marker
 
Mr.Skellington wrote:I can respect that you hold a strong opinion and attempt to defend it (even though it wasn't threatened) but I'm not completely convinced that you have made your own mind up about your choice of firearm.

So then, I said you know what, I'm taking this into my own hands this time....

.....It's the simplicity and abundance of the Glock that attracts me. I like carrying something everyone else does because as I stated before, if my Glock breaks, I bet that same day it can be up and running again from just about anywhere on the planet. That is comforting. I can put mags from a Glock 17 in my 19, that is another abundant firearm, and allows me two more rounds per mag. These are the reasons for me choosing glock, versatility and compatibility. I strictly think in worse case, self defense, SHTF scenarios and what weapon gives me the ability to be the most versatile and stay in the fight longer. That is also what lead me to choose Glock....

So you see I didn't just wake up one day on the Glock aid because they were popular or I'm a fanboy. That is what I did with the other two weapons. I made sure this time, and when I bought one it was because I was a believer in the product and how it fit MY needs better than anything else. I use all of the facts of them being popular and EVERYTHING else because in the world of firearms, and to me, that means something.

My friend reloads for both of us. I personally do not.
 #56894  by Boots
 
IMHO, any off-the-shelf handgun with a widely-known reputation for reliability and simplicity of use would warrant a closer look by anyone in need of such a gun. If they were to ultimately find this gun also met their needs better than any other, they would be selecting it for that reason, not just because many other people also selected it.

Also, the fact a gun is in widespread use does have additional benefits, such as availability of parts and knowledgeable gunsmiths, and I would not fault anyone for pointing that out.

Personally, I have never owned a Glock and have no interest in them, but, I have recommended them to anyone searching for a 'first handgun', mainly because of their reliability and simplicity-of-use. And, if anyone is asking for advice, I would never recommend a 1911 to them because I consider the 1911 to be a "high maintenance" item that requires additional knowledge and training.

JMHO, and as they say on the forums... YMMV. Do your own research and pick the one that works best for you. :mrgreen:
 #56901  by Marker
 
Boots wrote:IMHO, any off-the-shelf handgun with a widely-known reputation for reliability and simplicity of use would warrant a closer look by anyone in need of such a gun. If they were to ultimately find this gun also met their needs better than any other, they would be selecting it for that reason, not just because many other people also selected it.

Also, the fact a gun is in widespread use does have additional benefits, such as availability of parts and knowledgeable gunsmiths, and I would not fault anyone for pointing that out.

Personally, I have never owned a Glock and have no interest in them, but, I have recommended them to anyone searching for a 'first handgun', mainly because of their reliability and simplicity-of-use. And, if anyone is asking for advice, I would never recommend a 1911 to them because I consider the 1911 to be a "high maintenance" item that requires additional knowledge and training.

JMHO, and as they say on the forums... YMMV. Do your own research and pick the one that works best for you. :mrgreen:
I can agree with this.
 #56912  by Condition1
 
Boots wrote:IMHO, any off-the-shelf handgun with a widely-known reputation for reliability and simplicity of use would warrant a closer look by anyone in need of such a gun. If they were to ultimately find this gun also met their needs better than any other, they would be selecting it for that reason, not just because many other people also selected it.

Also, the fact a gun is in widespread use does have additional benefits, such as availability of parts and knowledgeable gunsmiths, and I would not fault anyone for pointing that out.

Personally, I have never owned a Glock and have no interest in them, but, I have recommended them to anyone searching for a 'first handgun', mainly because of their reliability and simplicity-of-use. And, if anyone is asking for advice, I would never recommend a 1911 to them because I consider the 1911 to be a "high maintenance" item that requires additional knowledge and training.

JMHO, and as they say on the forums... YMMV. Do your own research and pick the one that works best for you. :mrgreen:
Good post!
 #58291  by bluedog46
 
Hello all.

Been a bit a thought I would give a 45 1911 update. I have had about 300 rounds without a single issue. I figured out that the mag that came with the gun was causing issues, but the pro-mags i got from sportsmans guide have worked fine since I got the gun back from the smith and had the ejector fixed.

It will now fire the hollow points that I previously had problems with and the feed ramp has not yet been modified. The only drawback is that is seems I have to clean this gun more than I do my other ones, but I can live with that. Now I understand why 1911 is so popular. I carry my Glock most of the time, but really love shooting the 1911
 #59052  by bluedog46
 
Thougt I would give another update.

I went this past friday and put 60 rounds of fmj ammo and 24 rounds of finochi ( i think thats it ) hollow point 230 grain. I shot a mag full of hornady ( expensive) and did not have any issues with the hollow points. I did have one jam, but it was with a new mag and it seems like i need to let mags sit with rounds in them for a week before the issues are gone.

I am thinking of seeing what a smith will charge me to put 3 dot sights on it and maybe polish the feed ramp. Other than that I am really liking this. The only thing bad is that now I am spoiled by the 1911 trigger pulll my glock seems to pull a bit to the left with the heavier trigger pull.

also is a 5.45x39 round considered smaller than a remington .223?