Post questions here about open and concealed carry, as well as general law questions.
 #106042  by flaminyon
 
Hey gang, got a question for y'all. I'll preface by saying this: I spend a lot of time with younger family members, who happen to be in scouting, they understand the concealed carry process in Delaware, and know what the rules are when it comes to guns. We've never had any issues with poor behavior around guns with them, and never will.

Occasionally, due to crazy scheduling, I don't always have the option to switch to concealed before dropping a certain young man off at a scouting event. This has lead to many of the kids asking me the usual "Are you a police officer" "Why do you have a gun" "Are you in the FBI" and that sort of thing. Of course I answer no to the question if I am a LEO or Agent, but when they ask me why I have a gun I'm a bit torn on the issue. My concern is that while I am very pro 2A, I don't want to push my beliefs on another person's child. Rather than explain something that could get me even more questions, I typically just say that I have my permit from the court, and that I am allowed to have it. That's usually good enough for them, but I really don't want to shove my ideas down somebody's throat, some parents there might even be anti, I'm sure. More importantly, scouts isn't the place for that type of discussion, it's about the kids. When I open carry, part of it is to make a statement, as I'm sure you all can understand, but I wouldn't intentionally do that at a scouting function, it's just not the place.

When it comes to any function with kids, I will always prefer concealed to open, but depending on my activities that day, I might not be able to switch. And I will not simply leave it in the car, that won't happen, I already had to explain to the assorted agencies why I need my rights, I don't need any more grief.

Well what does everybody think, any experiences or advice?
 #106046  by Owen
 
I've OC'd while taking my son to scout meetings. It was at a church and I asked if they had a no OC policy and they said "no, as long as no one complains because they understand that a lot of LEO come to and from to drop off their kids". I said "I am not LEO" and they didn't say you have to leave. That day they had shotguns there to prep for a Scouting shooting event. I OC'd to that event at Wilm. Trap Shooters and had no issues. Most people I've met in Scouts are pro 2A. Scouting does have rules about firearms but I have never had them used against me. But I am usually dropping off or picking up my son. That event was the only time I "hung out" and it was at a range and an 'activity' not an 'event' which changes the rules I think.

When kids ask (especially ones in scouts) I say something like "just like I have a pocket knife and a flashlight. I like to 'be prepared'". That usually makes sense to them.
 #106048  by Kuntryboy816
 
I try and explain it on terms that they can understand. This example is more of a response to younger kids...
I start out by asking them if they watch cartoons or read comic books. I then point out that there's usually a bady guy, an archnemesis, a villian. Then I explain that, while most people are nice ordinary people, there are some bad guys out there that want to do bad things (some, very bad things) and may and try and hurt others. So that's why I have a gun, to protect the people I love from any bad guy that may want to hurt them.

Inevitably, you'll get the, "Why don't you call the police?" question...
I also explain that while there are real-life heros out there (PD, FD, EMT, military, etc.), that they aren't always around to help people all of the time since they don't have super powers like in the comics and cartoons. Because of that, all grown-ups need to be ready to help deal with the bad guys when they try and harm our friends, family and other people.

While I've only very rarely had to talk about it to inquiring little minds, I don't really mind doing so. Sometimes you won't always have an immediate answer for them but having a good base game plan will usually be enough to placate their curiosity for the moment. Hopefully that curiosity drives them to ask more questions and learn more so that they can learn what firearms are, how they are used and how to handle them safely and respectfully, hopefully from their parents or at least with their blessing. Maybe it spurs their parents curiosity as well... maybe the parents finally see a need and responsibility to their family instead of being brainwashed by all the anti, liberal media BS.

I tend to disagree with the "scouts isn't the place" or "shoving my ideas down somebody's throat" statements. Anywhere and anytime is a good place for our children to learn. AFAIK, they still teach shooting and marksmanship, correct? If a child is curious, I'd rather them get the answers from a responsible knowledgeable adult than try and go learn it themselves or from the wrong people. You can educate them with knowledge regardless of what your personal beliefs are. Every person on this planet has to decide for themselves what to believe and all we can do is provide them with knowledge and let them decide from there. If they never receive that knowledge then how are they supposed to make an informed choice. Just b/c you share your knowledge with them does NOT mean your imposing your beliefs on them at all. I could go into a very drawn out discussion but I'll think I'll end here... for the moment.
 #106050  by dave_in_delaware
 
You're not "shoving something down someone's throat" if you're answering a simple question honestly. They ask the question, you give an answer.

And scouts is one of the more "appropriate" groups of kids when it comes to firearms and education. If the kid is in scouts, then the parents should understand that guns might come up as an interest.

You can't "hide" something like guns from children because that'll just make them more curious. And a curious child with no education or supervision of firearms/safety can be a deadly thing.

I say teach them now. Answer their questions. Get their parents involved.
 #106058  by flaminyon
 
Well I suppose I should have mentioned, I've never spent a second in scouting in my life, and couldn't even stand the thought of it when I was 7 or 8. I also don't know much about it, or care to, I find it completely pointless, for me that is. I learned my life skills my own way, I have always been my own person and scouts can't offer me that, or really anything I couldn't do on my own without scouts. That being said, I recognize that some other people have different views on what the experience is, and the kids are all in it for their own reasons too, whatever they may be. The one thing I do recognize though, is that it isn't a place for parents or in my case, other adults to talk gun politics, even if the group is largely pro. It's supposed to be for the kids, and the firearms activities they do, (according to an 11 year old mind you) include shotgun shooting which I assume to be trap, and .22 rifle shooting. They explicitly forbid handgun shooting from my understanding. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm by no means even mildly informed about scouting.

When it comes to imposing my ideas on others, that's not really who I am as a person. My mentality is, if you're dumb enough not to use your 2nd Amendment rights, and protect yourself and of course your loved ones, you're just an idiot. But that would be that person's prerogative, not the best example for the whole "be prepared" thing. ( I think that's their motto, right? ) If somebody is Darwinian enough to try to hide guns from kids or demonize them, they're not living up to that be prepared thing.

Conversely, when it comes to sharing knowledge, I love to share what I know with anybody that asks. Several times I've been asked by people of all ages what I carry, or how a certain gun on TV works, or what the laws are, and I enjoy sharing what I know and educating people. This goes great with open carry, as I'm sure you all know. Granted, once the whole "Oh that guy's dad has a gun" thing fades, as was the case recently, I was demonstrating how to use a scissor jack and replace a tire instead of educating why 10mm Auto is the best round ever :)

Love to hear what you guys think about all this, thanks for responding everybody! Advice/criticism welcome if you feel the need to share as well.
 #106060  by astro_wanabe
 
flaminyon wrote:It's supposed to be for the kids, and the firearms activities they do, (according to an 11 year old mind you) include shotgun shooting which I assume to be trap, and .22 rifle shooting. They explicitly forbid handgun shooting from my understanding. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm by no means even mildly informed about scouting.
Cub scouts typically do BB / pellet airguns and archery. Boy Scout troops can do small bore rifle, shotgun (skeet or trap as the range allows), muzzle loaders, and archery. Venturing Crews (co-ed 14 to 20 years old) can shoot any caliber of rifle or pistol (no full auto though), archery, and event hunt. Unfortunately the Guide to Safe Scouting expressly prohibits using artillery. Yes, I checked. It also prohibits pointing firearms or simulated firearms at human or human shaped targets, so they can do paintball but only target shooting at non-humanoid targets. Airsoft is prohibited.

For the record, the Guide also says this:
"Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor."
flaminyon wrote:But that would be that person's prerogative, not the best example for the whole "be prepared" thing. ( I think that's their motto, right? ).
Yes that is the motto.
flaminyon wrote:Granted, once the whole "Oh that guy's dad has a gun" thing fades, as was the case recently, I was demonstrating how to use a scissor jack and replace a tire instead of educating why 10mm Auto is the best round ever :)
Well it would be nice if you could at least give them correct info. 50BMG is clearly the best round.
 #106062  by Owen
 
Good info everyone.
astro_wanabe wrote:For the record, the Guide also says this:
"Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA national shooting sports director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor."
The way I read this they have an exception based on the judgement of the qualified person running the event. The gentleman in charge was ok with me open carrying so I was good.

Besides, Robert Baden-Powell was a soldier and wrote that “we ought not to think so much of any boy unless he can shoot and drill and scout” - Scouting for Boys, 1908
 #106063  by radnor
 
Astro ya beat me to it. That sums up what they can shoot.

Normally take 1 to 2 wks of vacation to volunteer at camp running SG merit badge.
Very rewarding when you get very close to the end of the week and the light finally comes on.

Handguns will be added soon the the boy scout program (already in the Venturer program)