Post questions here about open and concealed carry, as well as general law questions.
 #91987  by bmel17
 
HoBoJoe wrote:
bmel17 wrote:
HoBoJoe wrote:If you do not have your CCW then legally in order to have the weapon out of plain sight it needs to be unloaded and in a separate case/box from the ammo.
In order for it to be a crime it needs to be concealed on or about your person.

The separation of ammo is under FOPA which would only be interstate travel so it wouldn't matter anyway
So having a loaded firearm not within your reach, but in your vehicle is not a crime?
Astro beat me to it. sorry was busy painting till 2 am!

thanks Astro!
 #92007  by spillanej
 
HoBoJoe wrote:
bmel17 wrote:
HoBoJoe wrote:If you do not have your CCW then legally in order to have the weapon out of plain sight it needs to be unloaded and in a separate case/box from the ammo.
In order for it to be a crime it needs to be concealed on or about your person.

The separation of ammo is under FOPA which would only be interstate travel so it wouldn't matter anyway
So having a loaded firearm not within your reach, but in your vehicle is not a crime?
If the vehicle is considered to be under your control you are in possession of everything inside of it. Basically even if your car hasnt moved from a parking lot in 6 hours, you are still in control of it in the eyes of law enforcement. In actual law (courts and lawyers) there are a few definitions for when you are in control of your vehicle. Some magistrates here in delaware have used the "in possession of the keys" rule, others have used the "within 20 yards" rule. Mostly case (intepretive) law and legal precedents but as far as I know there is no statutory law clearly defining when you are in control of a vehicle.

That being said, unloaded, loaded, 9mm, .454, .17mm BB gun, nail file with a sharp point... does not matter without a CCDW you cannot conceal anything ever while on public property, another's private property, or any place that may be generally considered public such as your front yard.

There is no strong precendent either way about concealing a firearm in the home as most people do not feel the need to keep the prying eyes of their cats away from their weapons.

Generally speaking, any firearm, weapon, or other item which can cause grievous bodily harm or death may not be concealed while you are in possession of it, on your person, in your car, on your motorcycle, or anywhere else.

Delaware is a state that will crucify you for going 28 in a 25, lets not play the martyr and try to see what they find legal for firearms.
 #92018  by bmel17
 
spillanej wrote: If the vehicle is considered to be under your control you are in possession of everything inside of it. Basically even if your car hasnt moved from a parking lot in 6 hours, you are still in control of it in the eyes of law enforcement. In actual law (courts and lawyers) there are a few definitions for when you are in control of your vehicle. Some magistrates here in delaware have used the "in possession of the keys" rule, others have used the "within 20 yards" rule. Mostly case (intepretive) law and legal precedents but as far as I know there is no statutory law clearly defining when you are in control of a vehicle.

That being said, unloaded, loaded, 9mm, .454, .17mm BB gun, nail file with a sharp point... does not matter without a CCDW you cannot conceal anything ever while on public property, another's private property, or any place that may be generally considered public such as your front yard.

There is no strong precendent either way about concealing a firearm in the home as most people do not feel the need to keep the prying eyes of their cats away from their weapons.

Generally speaking, any firearm, weapon, or other item which can cause grievous bodily harm or death may not be concealed while you are in possession of it, on your person, in your car, on your motorcycle, or anywhere else.

Delaware is a state that will crucify you for going 28 in a 25, lets not play the martyr and try to see what they find legal for firearms.
Did you not read the precedents Astro posted? I'm guessing you didn't or you wouldn't have made this statement.

You might want to take the time and read the PDF and see the court cases to know threads
 #92021  by spillanej
 
bmel17 wrote:
spillanej wrote: If the vehicle is considered to be under your control you are in possession of everything inside of it. Basically even if your car hasnt moved from a parking lot in 6 hours, you are still in control of it in the eyes of law enforcement. In actual law (courts and lawyers) there are a few definitions for when you are in control of your vehicle. Some magistrates here in delaware have used the "in possession of the keys" rule, others have used the "within 20 yards" rule. Mostly case (intepretive) law and legal precedents but as far as I know there is no statutory law clearly defining when you are in control of a vehicle.

That being said, unloaded, loaded, 9mm, .454, .17mm BB gun, nail file with a sharp point... does not matter without a CCDW you cannot conceal anything ever while on public property, another's private property, or any place that may be generally considered public such as your front yard.

There is no strong precendent either way about concealing a firearm in the home as most people do not feel the need to keep the prying eyes of their cats away from their weapons.

Generally speaking, any firearm, weapon, or other item which can cause grievous bodily harm or death may not be concealed while you are in possession of it, on your person, in your car, on your motorcycle, or anywhere else.

Delaware is a state that will crucify you for going 28 in a 25, lets not play the martyr and try to see what they find legal for firearms.
Did you not read the precedents Astro posted? I'm guessing you didn't or you wouldn't have made this statement.

You might want to take the time and read the PDF and see the court cases to know threads
Unfortunately actual law is almost never followed in Delawarw courts. They make it up as it goes.
 #92032  by bmel17
 
spillanej wrote:
bmel17 wrote:
Unfortunately actual law is almost never followed in Delawarw courts. They make it up as it goes.
That makes no sense at all. And I know I've asked you this before: Where does your inside track info come from? By the way you speak, you must either be a lawyer, para-legal, judge or something to have this insight into the DE legal system.
 #92043  by spillanej
 
bmel17 wrote:
spillanej wrote:
bmel17 wrote:
Unfortunately actual law is almost never followed in Delawarw courts. They make it up as it goes.
That makes no sense at all. And I know I've asked you this before: Where does your inside track info come from? By the way you speak, you must either be a lawyer, para-legal, judge or something to have this insight into the DE legal system.
Im a professional. Thats all I am. My meaning is simple, though poorly worded. Law enforcment acts so far outside of the scope of defined laws inside of Delaware that police agency procedures set forth by the Department of Safety and Homeland Security are often used as impromptu case law to authorize actions by LEOs and charges against usually innocent people.

For instance, it is legal in Delaware for 15 officers to respond to a traffic stop because the driver lawfully possessed a firearm. The driver's only crime was speeding. Speeding cannot merit arrest. The presence of the backup officers constitutes arrest in the state of Delaware. The driver was officially arrested for speeding, even if 45 minutes later he is released.

This is because departmental policy requires a call for backup when there is a firearm present, so it is now normal for law enforcement to arrest innocent people.
 #92047  by Owen
 
spillanej wrote:
bmel17 wrote:That makes no sense at all. And I know I've asked you this before: Where does your inside track info come from? By the way you speak, you must either be a lawyer, para-legal, judge or something to have this insight into the DE legal system.
Im a professional. Thats all I am. My meaning is simple, though poorly worded. Law enforcment acts so far outside of the scope of defined laws inside of Delaware that police agency procedures set forth by the Department of Safety and Homeland Security are often used as impromptu case law to authorize actions by LEOs and charges against usually innocent people.

For instance, it is legal in Delaware for 15 officers to respond to a traffic stop because the driver lawfully possessed a firearm. The driver's only crime was speeding. Speeding cannot merit arrest. The presence of the backup officers constitutes arrest in the state of Delaware. The driver was officially arrested for speeding, even if 45 minutes later he is released.

This is because departmental policy requires a call for backup when there is a firearm present, so it is now normal for law enforcement to arrest innocent people.
I understand that you may not want to reveal your profession on an open forum like this. Making blanket statements like you have is interesting but without any references (news stories, case law, etc) not 100% helpful. No offense intended.

EDIT: Back OT - I have a dash mounted holster where I keep my loaded pistol. This is based on advice from a State Trooper, a Wilmington Officer and a certified NRA instructor. 360 degree visible. Of course I am not a lawyer and neither are they. :)
 #92050  by bmel17
 
Owen wrote: I understand that you may not want to reveal your profession on an open forum like this. Making blanket statements like you have is interesting but without any references (news stories, case law, etc) not 100% helpful. No offense intended.
This is my point exactly Owen. Haphazard advice without any source or background information can be dangerous, especially the new guys.

Spillanej has previously stated he sells body armor in NJ, yet seems to be able to give legal advice among the best lawyers here in DE and knows the DE police and court system inside and out. I don't understand your secrecy unless you're Batman and trying to hide the location of the Batcave. No one is asking you to post your address, phone number, social, etc.

Spillanej, please be careful of what information you disseminate and how you present yourself. As a "professional", I would hope you would do the research and show us where in case law, law, or news stories, where what you talk about is reality.

Don't take it the wrong way, I just don't what to see anyone take bad advice and get in trouble. Please either source the info, or leave the "way it really is opinion" as just that, an opinion and leave that advice at home.
 #92068  by MrCoolDale
 
Without becoming a part of an argument of which I have no interest, I would like to comment on the cops doing whatever they want. I have been detained for open carry by DSP, I have been stopped several times by Wilmington PD, and am harassed on a regular basis by New Castle County Police. I certainly can't comment on the rest of the legal system, but many police officers seem to believe they can do whatever they want.

I'm not a lawyer, a "Professional," a cop, DA, or anything else like that. I'm just a railroader sharing my personal experiences. Stay safe out there and be prepared for anything.
 #92125  by spillanej
 
bmel17 wrote:
Owen wrote: I understand that you may not want to reveal your profession on an open forum like this. Making blanket statements like you have is interesting but without any references (news stories, case law, etc) not 100% helpful. No offense intended.
This is my point exactly Owen. Haphazard advice without any source or background information can be dangerous, especially the new guys.

Spillanej has previously stated he sells body armor in NJ, yet seems to be able to give legal advice among the best lawyers here in DE and knows the DE police and court system inside and out. I don't understand your secrecy unless you're Batman and trying to hide the location of the Batcave. No one is asking you to post your address, phone number, social, etc.

Spillanej, please be careful of what information you disseminate and how you present yourself. As a "professional", I would hope you would do the research and show us where in case law, law, or news stories, where what you talk about is reality.

Don't take it the wrong way, I just don't what to see anyone take bad advice and get in trouble. Please either source the info, or leave the "way it really is opinion" as just that, an opinion and leave that advice at home.
I often post from my phone. Making such reference calling difficult. As always I will declare I am not a lawyer, nor am I a law enforcement officer.

Always do your own research regardless of the sources provided in an argument. Protect yourself by knowing not just hearing, even if a lawyer tells you something never just believe it has merit.

I do many things, anything I can to help our good old sheepdogs, and train this next generation in their moral fiber. Truly I do have a logic beyond my years, and I make sure I know everything I can that protects me. I am but a mere friend of law enforcement, local county state and federal. I will also go hundreds of miles out of my way to help a soldier in need, good to keep in mind of any of you are vets.

Back on topic, I carry in my seat, and I also have "pursuaded" my dash to have a holster shaped hole in it for temporary mounting. When I have had to run into the post office I decided to either bring a close and highly trusted friend to stay in the car, or I go to their website and schedule a free pickup.