Post questions here about open and concealed carry, as well as general law questions.
 #93043  by Shadowline
 
I'm heading to DE for Thanksgiving dinner this afternoon. I'm a PA resident and have no carry licenses that have reciprocity with DE. I figured I can OC my handgun while driving (by leaving the holster on my dash mount, but I don't want to bring it into the house for dinner. Would I be in violation of DE laws if I lock my handgun in a car safe and push it under the front seat while I'm inside eating dinner?

Thanks for your help.
 #93055  by spillanej
 
Shadowline wrote:I'm heading to DE for Thanksgiving dinner this afternoon. I'm a PA resident and have no carry licenses that have reciprocity with DE. I figured I can OC my handgun while driving (by leaving the holster on my dash mount, but I don't want to bring it into the house for dinner. Would I be in violation of DE laws if I lock my handgun in a car safe and push it under the front seat while I'm inside eating dinner?

Thanks for your help.
I know its a bit late but yes and no depending on who you ask. In delaware you cannot conceal any weapon or dangerous instrument that is in your "dominion." A vehicle you are next to that you have the keys to is considered to be in your dominion. However you can ease scrutiny if needed by rendering the firearm not readily operable.. such as your safe.

Id be happy to hear this topic explored again as I myself have not found a definite answer
 #93057  by Kuntryboy816
 
Shadowline wrote:I'm heading to DE for Thanksgiving dinner this afternoon. I'm a PA resident and have no carry licenses that have reciprocity with DE. I figured I can OC my handgun while driving (by leaving the holster on my dash mount, but I don't want to bring it into the house for dinner. Would I be in violation of DE laws if I lock my handgun in a car safe and push it under the front seat while I'm inside eating dinner?

Thanks for your help.
First of all, welcome to the forum. This is a day late and a dollar short but here goes...

There are different interpretations here and I am not a lawyer. Some would say that it would be perfectly fine and it is not considered concealed as it is not "on or about your person." Others would tell you to unload the ammo and store it in a separate area of the vehicle in order to not be considered concealed. Aaaand, others would tell you that your vehicle could still be deemed as "under your control" and therefore considered concealed whether your in it or not. I've only heard rumor of the last one but find it an unlikely scenario. My suggestion would to put the safe/case in the trunk of the vehicle so that it is an "inaccessible" area of the vehicle.

Personally, I don't disarm unless I'm at work or church or a place that restricts weapons. When I do have to disarm, I unload it and lock it up. Usually I keep the ammo with me just in case someone does get to my sidearm.

http://www.deloc.org/docs/Delaware_Firearms_Laws.pdf
(ppgs 17-19)
 #93058  by astro_wanabe
 
In my personal, non-lawyer opinion, if you're not in the vehicle then I don't see how you'd be "carrying" it "upon or about" your person.

Here's Delaware's law against carrying concealed deadly weapons:
11 Del. C. §1442 Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.
A person is guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon when the person carries concealed a deadly weapon upon or about the person without a license to do so as provided by § 1441 of this title.
If it's in a lockbox in a locked vehicle then that would seem to further decrease your "immediate availability and accessibility of the weapon," which is what determines if the weapon is "about" your person according to a court case (excerpts of which can be found in our Firearms Law pdf that KuntryBoy linked to):
Whether concealed deadly weapon may be deemed to be "about" the person should be determined by considering the immediate availability and accessibility of the weapon to the person, which is a factual question. Dubin v. State, 397 A.2d 132 (Del. 1979).

Factors determinative of accessibility. - Three factors are to be considered by the fact-finder in deciding the issue of whether a deadly weapon was accessible to the defendant and, hence, "about the person": (1) Would the defendant have to appreciably change position in order to reach the weapon? (2) could the defendant reach the weapon while driving? and (3) how long would it take for a defendant to reach the weapon, if the defendant were provoked? Dubin v. State, 397 A.2d 132 (Del. 1979).
1. You'd have to return to your vehicle, unlock your vehicle, get into the vehicle, unlock the lockbox, and then retrieve the firearm. Personally I'd say that's an "appreciable" change in position.
2. You're not even in the vehicle, so no you can't just reach it.
3. Seeing the steps needed in #1, performing those steps would take significantly more time than say pulling a gun out of your waistband.

Of course, when you get back to the vehicle, if you don't have a CCDW then you need to either move the firearm into the open (to OC) or make sure it's someplace that isn't accessible to the occupants (perhaps the trunk).

Furthermore, whether or not the firearm is loaded is "immaterial"
It is quite immaterial whether a revolver is loaded or not, because such an instrument is commonly regarded as a deadly weapon without regard to its condition. If the absence of bullets would make the weapon a harmless one, then any condition that would prevent its being used at the time injuriously would have a like effect. State v. Quail, 28 Del. 310, 92 A. 859 (1914).
Since it's immaterial (atleast in regards to the CCDW law) I just leave mine loaded while it's secured in my vehicle (on the very, very few occasions where that happens).
 #93063  by spillanej
 
astro_wanabe wrote:In my personal, non-lawyer opinion, if you're not in the vehicle then I don't see how you'd be "carrying" it "upon or about" your person.

Here's Delaware's law against carrying concealed deadly weapons:
11 Del. C. §1442 Carrying a concealed deadly weapon; class G felony; class D felony.
A person is guilty of carrying a concealed deadly weapon when the person carries concealed a deadly weapon upon or about the person without a license to do so as provided by § 1441 of this title.
If it's in a lockbox in a locked vehicle then that would seem to further decrease your "immediate availability and accessibility of the weapon," which is what determines if the weapon is "about" your person according to a court case (excerpts of which can be found in our Firearms Law pdf that KuntryBoy linked to):
Whether concealed deadly weapon may be deemed to be "about" the person should be determined by considering the immediate availability and accessibility of the weapon to the person, which is a factual question. Dubin v. State, 397 A.2d 132 (Del. 1979).

Factors determinative of accessibility. - Three factors are to be considered by the fact-finder in deciding the issue of whether a deadly weapon was accessible to the defendant and, hence, "about the person": (1) Would the defendant have to appreciably change position in order to reach the weapon? (2) could the defendant reach the weapon while driving? and (3) how long would it take for a defendant to reach the weapon, if the defendant were provoked? Dubin v. State, 397 A.2d 132 (Del. 1979).
1. You'd have to return to your vehicle, unlock your vehicle, get into the vehicle, unlock the lockbox, and then retrieve the firearm. Personally I'd say that's an "appreciable" change in position.
2. You're not even in the vehicle, so no you can't just reach it.
3. Seeing the steps needed in #1, performing those steps would take significantly more time than say pulling a gun out of your waistband.

Of course, when you get back to the vehicle, if you don't have a CCDW then you need to either move the firearm into the open (to OC) or make sure it's someplace that isn't accessible to the occupants (perhaps the trunk).

Furthermore, whether or not the firearm is loaded is "immaterial"
It is quite immaterial whether a revolver is loaded or not, because such an instrument is commonly regarded as a deadly weapon without regard to its condition. If the absence of bullets would make the weapon a harmless one, then any condition that would prevent its being used at the time injuriously would have a like effect. State v. Quail, 28 Del. 310, 92 A. 859 (1914).
Since it's immaterial (atleast in regards to the CCDW law) I just leave mine loaded while it's secured in my vehicle (on the very, very few occasions where that happens).
Im inclined to agree. I would never leave anything of value in my car though. Anytime I must seperate from my primary carry firearm I keep 3 magazines with me. So upon reconnecting we are ready to go in 1.5 seconds