Semi-automatics, revolvers, long guns... ask questions and offer tips on safe, accurate shooting here.
 #77645  by bluedog46
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUSHNELL-730132 ... 43b5deb47f

Hello all.

This is the link I found for this scope. I am not intrested in this price range as its a bit high and i would just get an eotch used if possible.

What I was wondering is if anyone has used a scope like this with the back up iron sights? I was curious of if they shoot significantly higher than regular iron sights if you adjust them. I figured with something like this I could set the iron sights for like 25 yards and use the red dot or scope for like 100 plus yards.
 #77670  by cslade454
 
I have used iron sight though non magnified aimpionts and eotechs often. I recommend zeroing both your iron sights and your future red dot at 200 yards and use the same hold (over and under for both). Non magnified red dots are at there best under 50 yards. Once you have a good red dot your iron sights will be for back up use. From a practical stand point you will never use your irons again. I do recommend practicing a red dot failure dill to keep in practice with you irons.
I can shoot better groups with iron sight in good light with a match AR at 200,300 and 600 than I can with my 4 moa red dot. Red dots real don’t help you shoot further away like a scope/magnified sight can.
Red dot have two really big advantages over iron sight. They work really well at night/in the dark and you focus on your target with a red dot not on the front sight like irons. When you are attacked you naturally focus on the attacker/target. It is hard to keep your focus on the front sight when someone is shooting at you. When searching for or engaging multiple targets you never need to change your focus back from the target area to your front sight. Red dot allow you to do what come naturally.
 #77671  by cslade454
 
An Improved Battlesight Zero
for the M4 Carbine and M16A2 Rifle
1. Current Army/Marine Corps battlesight zero and it's procedures are well described in TM9-1005-319-10, the M16/M4 operator's manual. A recent copy of this manual is available for download at the Manual Depot. Procedures in the manual will not be repeated here.
2. The current 300 meter battlesight zero is a function of the sights on the rifle and I personally find it shoots too high for the vast majority of combat targets, including the Army's qualification ranges. The procedure listed here takes better advantage of the flat trajectory of these rifles as well as the use of civilian ranges, which are seldom surveyed in meters.
3. When zeroed at 200 meters, a distance twice that of normal combat engagements, these rifles have a very flat trajectory that is less then 2" from line of sight at all intermediate distances; a distance that's smaller than the normal dispersion of arsenal or factory loaded ammunition. This tiny trajectory arc allows very precise shooting out to 250 meters where the bullet is only 2" below line of sight.
4. A 200 meter zero has the happy coincidence of an initial trajectory cross-over at 50 yards, a distance available on almost all civilian ranges including many indoor ranges. This makes it easy to achieve a 200 meter battlesight zero without recourse to surveying your own range. If 200 meters is available you can fine-tune the zero at the real distance. And should when you get the chance.
5. The lowest sight setting, however, on these sights is 300 meters so the sight needs to be modified to preserve the markings on the sight (despite the fact that no one ever sets a range on these in the real world other than a USMC range). The sight needs to be set to bottom out at 8/3 -2 clicks. This will be the new 200-meter setting.
1. Flip the rear sight back to the unmarked aperture. This will reveal a hole in the top of the handle.
2. Rotate the sight wheel all the way down. Will probably be exactly at 8/3 (6/3). Don't force it down.
 
3. Using a 1/16" Allen wrench loosen the screw (under the revealed hole) in the sight wheel 3 full turns. Leave the wrench in the screw.
 
4. Rotate the bottom half of the sight wheel two clicks clockwise. This will raise the sight body if you look at it while you're turning it.
5. Tighten the Allen screw, remove the wrench, and confirm the sight bottoms out at 2 clicks BELOW 8/3. If not repeat the procedure until it's right.
 
6. Battlesight the rifle per the -10 with the following exceptions:
1. Sight should be at 8/3 -2 clicks, that is, all the way down, not up a click.  Please note removable handle sights are marked 6/3 (rather than 8/3); also some are in ‘half-clicks’ as well. There should be 3 clicks between 3 and 4 on the knob. If there are 6 clicks then the sight needs to be set at –4 clicks (instead of –2).
2. Small aperture, nose to firing handle weld.
3. Distance is 50 yards.
4. Point of aim should be point of impact of bullet.
7. Remember you're adjusting the FRONT SIGHT for elevation, not the rear, and that each click is about 1/2" (actually a little more) at 50 yards. You won't get it closer than that. Don't frustrate yourself trying.
8. You're done. Leave the sight in this position for 99% of your shooting.
9. If you have to shoot targets you KNOW are 300 meters away or more, just click to the right number on the sight.
10. If you're patrolling, set the sight to 8/3 and snap the aperture forward to 0-2. This will provide the same trajectory as above but with a larger, easier to see thru rear sight. Use this setting if you also have the M68 mounted as it's quicker to transition to if the sight fails. [Editor's Note - there is some variance with the offset of the A2 aperture - they SHOULD be a 2 click difference - however some manucatures produce them with larger offsets.  Setting the sight to 3 then flipping to 0-2 might now work for your AR.  Check it at the range, you want the group to be centered  at 50y, you might need to set the sight at 3 +2 or even 4 to get the large aperture to be correct]
11. If you have an M68 CCO (Aimpoint CompM-XD) optical sight battlesight it to 50/200 as well. You can shoot to 300 meters by merely holding "over a dot."
12. This battlesight zero is valid to 300 meters for both the M16A2 and M4 Carbines and their AR15 sisters. It's valid with any ammunition that approaches the specs for M193 (55gr) or M855 (62g) Ball ammunition. It works for both rifles and carbines due to the offsetting influence of higher muzzle velocity in the rifle being offset by the longer sight radius that moves bullet strike less per click. This is battlesight, not X-ring shooting!
13. This battlesight zero does not reflect the doctrine of the US Armed Forces, however, it reflects the personal use of these weapons in combat and in training for over 34 years.
14. Comments to: Lt. Colonel Chuck Santose (santose@compuserve.com).
Original document: 990104
Copyright 1999, 2000. All rights reserved.
Click here for some feedback on the IBSZ from US Soldiers.
Note To Users of Carbines with the A1 style rear sight or users of Flip-Up Sights: This 50 yard zero works really well. If you have the original sight aperture use the unmarked (short range) hole to zero the rifle. If you have upgraded, and use the A2 style aperture (or the A.O. Same Plane sight), then use the small (long range) hole for zeroing.
 #77713  by bluedog46
 
Thanks

So anyone try to backup sights that were on top of the scope I provided the link to?
 #77797  by cslade454
 
If your non magnified red dot goes down accurate aimed fire can still be accomplished buy using the red dot as a rear aperture iron sight if you have a front sight/filliped up. The round objectives of the aimpoints work better than the Eotech. A rear backup iron sight would be need for targets pass 50 meters.
The link shows a non magnified red dot that looks similar to an Acog. It can be misleading to call this Bushnell a telescope because it has no magnification. As long as you have an iron front sight the post and notch on this Bushnell would have no purpose. A Gimmick because it has no magnification. IMHO most people can shoot a rifle and make combat effective hits at 25 yards with no sights at all. Iron sight that can be used instead of/in conjunction with an optic are only necessary/useful with magnified optics when your target can’t be seen/focused because it is very close.
One model Acog came with iron sight. They were not needed because if you keep both eyes open with an Acog it works just fine CQB. Lesser quality optic might not though. Some new Acogs come with there mini red dot. Its placement on top cause cheek weld problems. Mounting a mini red dot low on and the side of telescope works much better.
Any post notch sight work. Were the rounds impact is no different that any other sight. The round will impact at the range were the sights are adjusted to. Every where else the rounds will impact high/low depending on range. If I ever shot a rifle that had an Acog with iron sight I did not find the need to ever use them.