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 Post subject: NC man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:04 pm 
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A man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot. A judge revoked his carry permit.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/a-m ... ar-AAomW5N

North Carolina Judge John O. Craig doesn’t believe it’s his job to make policy about guns — that’s a job for the legislature. But he told The Washington Post he’ll probably sleep a little better at night knowing Daniel Ray Brown isn’t toting a gun around.

Craig found Brown’s armed, bad-Samaritan response to a minor altercation so extreme that he immediately revoked the Winston-Salem, N.C., man’s concealed-carry permit, even though he met the state’s requirements.

“I don’t think it’s a good idea for this gentleman to have a concealed-carry permit, so I’m going to revoke that,” Craig said in court, according to the Winston-Salem Journal’s Scott Sexton. “This is just not the kind of thing we like to see from people with concealed-carry permits.”

The gun incident happened last March. Brown and his mother were eating near Hanes Mall in Winston-Salem when he saw a white man, screaming for help, being chased by two black men.

Brown, who did not return messages seeking comment, would later tell authorities that he thought the pursuers were drug dealers, or possibly loan sharks, and that the white man was in trouble. According to the Winston-Salem Journal, an officer testified that Brown told him “he saw two black guys ganging up on the white dude,” and “I’ve been told if I saw anything going on, I could use lethal force.”

But Brown was wrong — and Craig said he was about to make a bad situation worse.

“He was under the mistaken impression that if he came across a situation like this he could use lethal force to break it up,” an incredulous Craig told The Post. “I think he had a stand-your-ground-type defense confused and thought that he could just be a vigilante.”

According to Winston-Salem police, Brown “attempted to stop the struggle by pointing a handgun.”

One of the black men, Fredrick Morgan, testified that Brown pointed his gun at the group and demanded that the scuffling trio show ID.

“I’m like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa. You need to put that gun up,’ ” Morgan testified, according to the Journal.

When the three men wouldn’t listen, Brown fired a bullet into the ground a few feet in front of Morgan.

It wasn’t until after Brown had made a new hole in the asphalt that he learned the truth. The white man was mentally ill and had fled from two care workers. The chase was their attempt to corral him near Hanes Mall.

The gunfire near a crowded mall spooked everyone, and sent police officers scrambling to the scene. They arrested Brown, and had harsh words for him at his appeal.

Officer J.R. Huffman, a 17-year veteran of the Winston-Salem police and the first officer on the scene, testified that Brown’s gunfire “amped it up another level,” according to the Journal.

When the officer demanded to know who fired the gun, Brown answered that the gun was his and that he had a concealed-carry permit.

Huffman responded: “Where’d you get a concealed-carry license from? Kmart? . . . Warning shots? We don’t fire warning shots.”

Brown was arrested and convicted of assault by pointing a gun and discharging a firearm within city limits — both misdemeanors. Unsatisfied with the verdict, he appealed to a jury trial, which brought him to Craig’s courtroom last week.

Although Craig said the misdemeanor case was fairly bizarre, he said the incident seemed indicative of greater confusion over “stand your ground” laws.

“Defense of your ground or your car or other people such as your family is a totally different thing from what [Brown] thought,” he said.

The case of an armed civilian had echoes of George Zimmerman, the Florida man accused in 2012 of killing Trayvon Martin.

Trayvon, 17, was unarmed, carrying a pack of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea and wandering through a neighborhood in Sanford, Fla., when he got into a confrontation with Zimmerman.

Like the Winston-Salem case, Zimmerman’s had racial overtones.

Trayvon was black. Zimmerman, who told dispatchers that he was a neighborhood watch volunteer, identified himself as Hispanic. The shooting of the teen sparked protests across the country and a nationwide conversation about “stand your ground” laws.

Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him and that he fired in self-defense. He was acquitted a year after the shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: NC man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Luckily it was only a warning shot into the ground instead of something much worse.

This is an example of not knowing the whole story or context before becoming involved in a situation with a gun.

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 Post subject: Re: NC man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:08 pm 
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I wonder did he ask what was happening? Did the two guys subduing the third responded with something reasonable or just your typical "mind your own business". Police have shot people who "did not comply" that were actually persons that were not able to respond: autistic for example. the judge should have given this man the same deference he'd give the police IF the two subduers were not forthright. IF they said "F-off" then I think he may have been justified. Too much info missing.

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 Post subject: Re: NC man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:28 am 
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Classic example of a guy having NO IDEA of his responsibilities while carrying a gun. You aren't law enforcement and your life wasn't at risk.
He doesn't deserve to carry.


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 Post subject: Re: NC man claimed he stood his ground with a warning shot.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Let's not forget that you are legally allowed to act in defense of others.... but with that being said...

This guy should've observed a little more closely what was happening before making a decision to draw... and never a warning shot!! All he saw was a chase and acted. Too many people these days stand back and say, "Not my problem" and ignore the situation or they watch & pull out their phones screaming, "WORLDSTAR". There was absolutley nothing wrong with him observing a possible assault and attempting to help and I actually applaud this guy for making a decision to try and help. HOW he decided to help was completely incorrect. Had he run over to the scene, stood a few feet away and attempted to ascertain the situation a little better.. he might have gotten info on what was occurring... he might have even been asked to help subdue the escapee. I guarantee that the two guys giving chase didn't even know this guy existed until he rolled up with his pistol drawn making a stupid demand about IDs! I would've reacted the same way the two guys did, "Hey man, what are you doing... put that thing away!" Their concern is apprehension of the escapee, not explaining the withertos and whyfors of what's going on. If the guy didn't get the answer he wanted, he should've called the police... correction: he should've already been on the phone with police! But since he didn't like the answer he was given, he discharges his fiream?!?! Like Dave said, good thing it was only a warning shot and not worse!! Unless the two guys were actually beating the other guy (which I highly doubt he observed this since they were actually trying to help the guy) or he saw one of them with a weapon, then his pistol should've never left the holster. Like Owen said, there's a lot of the story we don't know BUT unless this gentleman was physically accosted or saw a weapon, I don't think there is any justification for him to discharge a warning shot.

From what we know, I believe the judge was correct in revoking the permit. I don't know if it was a permanent revocation or not but I think the judge should've given the guy conditions on being able to attain the CC permit after meeting some conditions... like taking the CC course again and having to take some anger management courses....

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