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 Post subject: Multiple! LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:24 am
Posts: 525
UPDATE, 3 or 4 deputies waited outside during the shooting.

.gov, specifically LEO is not legally required to protect anyone. they are not legally responsible , or more importantly, or liable for failing to protect anyone.

didn't even enter the building. just stood outside.

https://www.wptv.com/news/national/depu ... in-resigns

the general ruling from previous issues. leo/.gov can not be held accountable for failure to protect you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v. ... f_Columbia

all those places where .gov disarms people, say like state parks, state forest lands, etc, have zero legal requirement or liability for failing to protect. and, in some places, they're willing to turn you into a criminal for carrying the means to protect yourself.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/24/se ... -says.html


Last edited by pick_six on Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 1610
Location: Newark DE
It's one of those things that is impossible to determine until you are put into that situation. Maybe the officer thought that he was capable of handling any required situation until it actually presented itself and then determined that he could not engage for whatever reasoning. They are human too and are as unperfect as the rest of us are.

I've had this conversation with my wife and friends before and now, due to this most recent event, it arises yet again. If you worked in a school and an active shooter scenario arose, could you engage and stop a student/child using lethal force?? Knowing the relationships that develops between students/teachers/staff, that is a tremendously heavy burden to bear! For a teacher, that's like asking them to shoot their own child! That is why, when I hear the rhetoric, "We must arm our teachers....", and while I do see lots of merit in that line of thinking, I don't assume that it is the one and only final solution that most people tote it as. While everyone now wants to fault the resource officer for failing to act, he/she is not to blame in the least. This is yet another red herring that media and those in power want to utilize to distract us from the real cause and finding a better solution to this reoccuring problem. LEO and military are highly and thoroughly trained to react and engage a threat with lethal force, yet despite that level of training, there are still some who can not force themselves to use deadly force when needed, regardless of that training. We try and mentally prepare ourselves for situations but not everyone can handle it, whether mentally or emotionally, when the situation demands a reaction.

I don't fault the officer one bit for not being able to react as society demands it. Maybe he/she did react in the only way possible (ie calling 911, directing students out, etc.) but could not force themself to run into the fight. Maybe we should get back to the root cause and blame the evil person that took 17 lives and selfishly forced everyone else into the situation in th first place. <\rant>

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 Post subject: Re: LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Location: NOT Bear - Christiana Area
Or maybe if one can't do the job one should not take it. 30 years he had when he resigned. Nice cushy job until the SHTF.

Maybe it is the Vet in me thinking I would have gone in. But to your point, it is truly easy to say all this as I sit in my desk chair typing this.

You guys keep sucking me in...

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 Post subject: Re: LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:24 am
Posts: 525
it's a fact, there is so much truth in what you posted.

but the actual events that occurred also prove the lie .gov/anti2a narratives.

john q is disarmed up to the point of being threatened with felony arrest or even death (go ahead, resist arrest) from carrying an effective form of defense in a school zone. (yes, technically, there are ways to legally carry, it's basically like MAY, BUT WON'T issue states with gun permits. you will not be given the exemption)

the police will protect you, or so the narrative goes.

usually the .gov argues the lack of liability on the FACT that they can't be everywhere. it's a fact, they can't be everywhere. i get that is physically impossible to be right there for EVERY bad thing that happens.

but this guy was.

as i note, the law does not require that he go in.

but his presence, and ONE of the narratives that folks use when looking to disarm folks, is that the police will protect you. and that is just a damned lie.

they may not assist, choose not to assist, and if they don't, even if they are right there, well... that's too bad for the victims. there is no legal requirement to even attempt. and there is no legal liability for failing to attempt.

Kuntryboy816 wrote:
It's one of those things that is impossible to determine until you are put into that situation. Maybe the officer thought that he was capable of handling any required situation until it actually presented itself and then determined that he could not engage for whatever reasoning. They are human too and are as unperfect as the rest of us are.

I've had this conversation with my wife and friends before and now, due to this most recent event, it arises yet again. If you worked in a school and an active shooter scenario arose, could you engage and stop a student/child using lethal force?? Knowing the relationships that develops between students/teachers/staff, that is a tremendously heavy burden to bear! For a teacher, that's like asking them to shoot their own child! That is why, when I hear the rhetoric, "We must arm our teachers....", and while I do see lots of merit in that line of thinking, I don't assume that it is the one and only final solution that most people tote it as. While everyone now wants to fault the resource officer for failing to act, he/she is not to blame in the least. This is yet another red herring that media and those in power want to utilize to distract us from the real cause and finding a better solution to this reoccuring problem. LEO and military are highly and thoroughly trained to react and engage a threat with lethal force, yet despite that level of training, there are still some who can not force themselves to use deadly force when needed, regardless of that training. We try and mentally prepare ourselves for situations but not everyone can handle it, whether mentally or emotionally, when the situation demands a reaction.

I don't fault the officer one bit for not being able to react as society demands it. Maybe he/she did react in the only way possible (ie calling 911, directing students out, etc.) but could not force themself to run into the fight. Maybe we should get back to the root cause and blame the evil person that took 17 lives and selfishly forced everyone else into the situation in th first place. <\rant>


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 Post subject: Re: LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:36 am
Posts: 297
Location: Middletown, DE
I don't understand how that guy can live with himself after this.

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 Post subject: Re: LEO/Sherriff Deputy AT FL school DID NOT ENGAGE
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:24 am
Posts: 525
It now is being repeated rated that a total of 4 SD's Sat outside the school while the shooter was active.

The one guy in the original report, and 3 more hiding behind their cars.

One of the "lessons learned" from Columbine was to enter immediately.

The sheriff of this Florida county stated as much in the interview when just one sheriff was being discussed. I believe the video is in the first link above. I know it's posted on other sites.

Thinking more about the post above, I think that discretion vs valor is strategy for a private citizen without qualified immunity. Any police office that follows that should be terminated and disqualified from benefits.

Reportedly information of the first guy staying outside was available, but NOT RELEASED, before the CNN propaganda hall.

The sheriff seems to have withheld the information until he could make an anti gun statement on the show.


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