brich2929 wrote:We brought what on ourselves? Getting a Defacto ban from a liberal-leaning anti-Christian, pro-gay marriage over-priced coffeehouse?
Your position isn't all that far from the other naysayers who call themselves pro-gun/pro-2nd Amendment. They're all over Colion Noir's Facebook page, as one example." Its all your fault, open-carriers!
This is an actual post from a fan his page today: I believe the "open carry" advocates brought this on with their ill-conceived campaign. Open carry "demonstrations" forced Starbucks into this. This "in your face" approach is counter productive. BTY, open carry for personal defense is also a flawed tactic.
In Texas, where the 3 men a few weeks ago were cited for Disturbing the peace in San Antonio after SUPPORTING Starbucks' perceived championing of the Pro-Gun movement, Open carry of Handguns is not permitted. Open carry of unloaded rifles IS permitted if they are not loaded. Until now, Starbucks followed the letter of the law in each store's respective state. One can surmise that that particular incident and the dueling "Skip Starbucks" and "Starbucks Appreciation Days" were in fact triggered or fueled by that event, at least in part. Now, Starbucks has caved to the Anti's. No big loss to me.
The point of these STARBUCKS days was to show by way of Green, cold hard cash (the language that businesses understand), that just because a guy has a gun doesn't make him a bad guy.
First I'd like to state that a position on one topic does not dictate a position on another. I am an advocate for gay marriage, women's choice, legalization of most street drugs, felon's rights, and against religion. However, for the purposes of these forums, I am pro-2A. I believe we should have the right to OC long guns, but I don't believe we should unless necessary. It certainly isn't tactically advantageous to have an unloaded firearm across your back. The response time for drawing such a firearm is incredibly long for an active shoot situation. Open carrying a loaded pistol is something different. Very tactical, and you still get your point across.
Carrying a gun doesn't make you a bad guy, I agree. Open carrying an AR or a shotgun makes you a nuisance. It also makes you unapproachable; completely defeating the purpose of public education. It's not enough for them to see you, they have to interact with you.
"Hey, look at that guy grabbing a mocha frappuccino before he kills everyone in this place."
"Hey, that guy carrying the pistol was actually a really decent guy to talk to."
It's all about public perception. I'm not the one that needs to be convinced, the on-the-fence public is.
brich2929 wrote:MrCoolDale, have you ever participated in an Open Carry Demonstration/March? Do you open carry or conceal carry? Do you carry a pistol or a rifle? The point of the public interaction is to show the public that friendly, law abiding people carry guns. The have to SEE your gun in order for them to know you have it. Otherwise, why bother. A concealed carrier looks just like a non-carrier.
I open carry on a daily basis and have conversations with strangers about it constantly. I have also been apprehended by the state police and harassed by several other police departments (New Castle County ongoing) for OCing. This only serves to drive me to open carry even more.
brich2929 wrote:The fact is, that the LAW and the CONSTITUTION should dictate what we do with our guns, not the culture and its perceptions. If someone feels uncomfortable with a law-abiding citizen with a rifle slung on their back, engaging in friendly conversation, sipping a latte Venti-Mocha then the PROBLEM is with the scaredy-cat and Not the guy with the rifle. No matter if there was a Sandy Hook every day of the year, the guy with the rifle, slung over his shoulder is NOT the enemy. Nor is the guy with the Pistol on his hip, whether in plain sight or not. It doesn't matter if that pistol is a .50 cal Desert Eagle or a FiveSeven with a 20 or (GASP!) 30 round magazine.
While the law and constitution should (and does) dictate what we do with our firearms, it's important to note that Starbucks, being a private corporation, has every right to ban firearms from its premises.
brich2929 wrote:The only time someone should be frightened is when a guy is walking around with Gun-in-hand.Once that rifle comes around front, THAT is when its all-bets off. Once that gun is unholstered,And Starbucks, Costco, Whole Foods, Peets Coffee, et al, aren't going to stop the bullets. Only a GOOD GUY with a gun can do that.
I'd agree that we shouldn't be worried unless the firearm is in hand, but several pictures floating about show exactly that. Shotguns with the bolt forward in the low ready. I can also tell you that while I advocate open carry, I'm keeping a close eye on anyone walking around with a long gun. Will I freak out and call the cops? No, but I'll certainly watch him/her like a hawk.
I do not agree with the public's reaction to OCing an AR, but we knew it was going to happen. Anyone who couldn't see this as the only possible outcome is either blind or obtuse. Neither of which have a place in this movement.
Brich, I really don't want you take any of this as an attack on you. I like you and your passion is a fantastic motivator for everyone, myself included. What I'm trying to say is that it's not pro-gun crowd that needs to be convinced, but that's the only people seeing the positive side of OCing an AR in a Starbucks. It's not wrong, but it's not helping our cause, as evidenced here.
*edit* My apologies, I initially spelled Brich as Birch.