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 Post subject: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:33 am
Posts: 24
Location: Hockessin, DE
New member here. I've been open carrying since April, but I've been shooting since I was 12 (thanks, old school Boy Scouts, and my Marine father). I've open carried in Delaware, Virginia, and North Carolina, where my son lives.

Last week I drove to NC to visit my son and hang out with his soon-to-be-ex-wife (we're on good terms, even if they aren't). As soon as I hit the NC line, I stopped in the welcome center to load up my .45 for open carry (Springfield Armory 1911 Range Officer). Then, on the way into Jacksonville on 258, at about 2300 hours, I ran into a DUI checkpoint. I was nervous about how the interaction would go, but it was smooth as glass. The officer asked if I had a permit, to which I said none needed, North Carolina is an open carry state. The officer said, "so it is," and we proceeded to have a very pleasant conversation about open carry, the second amendment, his envy over my 1911, good places to shoot while visiting, and the endless debate of 9mm vs. .45. Then he wished me a safe visit and sent me on my way. I proceeded to OC everywhere I was legally allowed to do so, and had no issues in NC.

Yesterday, however, when I was out walking my 5.5 miles around my neighborhood, one of my neighbors saw my pistol and called 911. The officer (NCC) was polite but distrustful, so he had me put my hands on a mailbox while he disarmed me. Then he ran my driver's license, personal information, and the gun's serial number. I told him it better NOT come back stolen since I'd bought it on the way out of town to NC a week and a half ago (I was carrying my new Glock 17 Gen3). He got a grin out of that. Fortunately, I've never been arrested for anything, much less convicted, so everything came back clean. Meanwhile, his backup showed up with two more officers. This was in the Stenning Woods development. He re-holstered the pistol for me, and then I re-inserted the mag without drawing the weapon (his instructions). Then we had a brief conversation about open carry vs. concealed carry, and they recommended I get a Delaware CCW just to save the hassles. The youngest officer, though, said, "second amendment, I get that. Good for you," and his partner said, "yeah, the world is a different place now." Then they wished me a good day, and I continued my exercise.

I say that's interesting because I happen to have taken two weeks of vacation from work, so I was walking in the middle of the day. Usually I walk after work, which means deep twilight or dark, and I am always carrying. I've also OCed in ACME in Lantana Square, and at various gas stations, without any problem at all. This was the first time anyone has said or done anything, other than youngsters in the gas station tugging on mom's hand and pointing.

One of my more ardent OC supporter friends (from TX) said that was an illegal detainment, since I was just out minding my own business and open carrying. I sort of disagree with him, since cooperative open carriers who interact with LEOs will improve our reputation. I also can't blame the officer for being distrustful, since OC is not as common here, and there have been several attacks on police officers lately. I'd be interested to hear the group's opinion on this event.

I'll be open carrying later this morning when I go meet a young lady at Starbucks on Main Street in Newark. It will be interesting to see how that goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:59 am
Posts: 1263
Location: Bear
Great first log entry! :applause:

I am not an expert or a lawyer, but I'd have to agree with your friend. What they did was a violation of the fourth amendment and illegal just like "stop and frisk". Based on Terry v. Ohio that is only legal if they have RAS (Reasonable Articulable Suspicion) that you are breaking the law and in Delaware it is lawful to open carry. They can't just disarm you because they feel uncomfortable. You'd need to first be breaking a law and they can't assume you are a criminal just because you are armed. Odd that NCC police would do this as they have seen me and many others open carrying and done nothing. I'd file a complaint because it sounds like they need more training on the law.

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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:04 pm
Posts: 564
Owen wrote:
Great first log entry! :applause:

I am not an expert or a lawyer, but I'd have to agree with your friend. What they did was a violation of the fourth amendment and illegal just like "stop and frisk". Based on Terry v. Ohio that is only legal if they have RAS (Reasonable Articulable Suspicion) that you are breaking the law and in Delaware it is lawful to open carry. They can't just disarm you because they feel uncomfortable. You'd need to first be breaking a law and they can't assume you are a criminal just because you are armed. Odd that NCC police would do this as they have seen me and many others open carrying and done nothing. I'd file a complaint because it sounds like they need more training on the law.


This^^^
Personally I've ran into many NCC officers. Never batted an eye at me. Either they felt they could bully you or they are uneducated. Either way I'd have told them to get the watch sergeant on scene or tell them to buzz off.
I'm all for being polite with uneducated officers but they seemed more on the bullying side. I'd have politely told them to call a sergeant or buzz off. If they handcuffed and arrested you you would have grounds for a lawsuit.


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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:34 am
Posts: 207
They temporarily stole your property and then stole your personal information with no RAS of a crime being committed or about to be committed. Your name is now on file in a criminal database. That is upsetting to hear. Thank you for sharing your story.


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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:33 am
Posts: 24
Location: Hockessin, DE
hukuzatuna wrote:
I'll be open carrying later this morning when I go meet a young lady at Starbucks on Main Street in Newark. It will be interesting to see how that goes.


No problems open carrying in Starbucks, even though it had been labeled "unfriendly" in the 2AFriendly app. Also had no problems walking on Main Street. In fact, nobody seemed to give me a second look in either place.


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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:11 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Winter Garden, FL
I agree - you were illegally detained

Questions to practice:
"Am I being detained?"
"Am I free to go?"

Keep repeating until they tell you to go...preferably while recording or videoing the entire situation.

Announce "I do NOT consent to search and seizure of my property"

Get officer's name, badge # and make note - your constitutional rights have been violated.

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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 192
phlydude wrote:
I agree - you were illegally detained

Questions to practice:
"Am I being detained?"
"Am I free to go?"

Keep repeating until they tell you to go...preferably while recording or videoing the entire situation.

Announce "I do NOT consent to search and seizure of my property"

Get officer's name, badge # and make note - your constitutional rights have been violated.

Plenty of YouTube videos showing how that usually ends :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:14 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Regardless of videos, rights are rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:23 pm
Posts: 1612
Location: Newark DE
Pjd832 wrote:
phlydude wrote:
I agree - you were illegally detained

Questions to practice:
"Am I being detained?"
"Am I free to go?"

Keep repeating until they tell you to go...preferably while recording or videoing the entire situation.

Announce "I do NOT consent to search and seizure of my property"

Get officer's name, badge # and make note - your constitutional rights have been violated.

Plenty of YouTube videos showing how that usually ends :roll:


If you want to believe the attention seeking whores who post their negative interactions with LEO on YouTube so that their drama wI accrue them likes/hits, go right on ahead. Myself, I prefer the real life version where I have yet to have ANY negative encounter with LEO.

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 Post subject: Re: Hukuzatuna's open carry log
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:33 am
Posts: 24
Location: Hockessin, DE
Had a positive OC experience yesterday. My daughter's 23rd birthday was yesterday, and she wanted to go meet her sister at California Pizza Kitchen at the Mall, then go to Barnes and Noble. First, we stopped at Shell on Paper Mill Road for gas and drinks, where I open carried. Nobody gave me a second look.

At the Mall, rather than push my luck, I left the pistol locked up in the car.

Afterwards, we stopped for groceries at the ACME in Lantana Square, then picked up some beer at Tim's. I open carried in both places, and, again, nobody gave me a second look.

So, it was a boring experience - getting gas, groceries, and beer, I just happened to be carrying my pistol. To me, a positive experience is when nobody pays any extra attention to me. :)


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