same here, feel free...
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Same... always hear for anyone that needs an ear.
Sorry, actually forgot to post what happened. Like I said not as dramatic as other's stories, similar to my last "incident". Again the cops didn't do anything that I can sue over (mostly due to my not pushing the issue of detainment), and I haven't even bothered complaining (not sure a complaint really would do anything). This is kinda long but I wrote most of it about an hour afterwards and wanted to get the major details down. Feel free to skim.
Newark Day, June 1st, 2013
My anti-gun dad wasn't pleased to see me OCing again after having the cops ask about it last year but I OC'ed anyways. Arrived at 1pm, walked around alot. Nobody asked me to leave anywhere, I nodded to numerous cops, tried to say "good afternoon" to those I passed closely, even joked with some about how standing outside in their dark color uniforms was a good weight loss plan. Heard one guy start spontaneously talking to his friend about how he was going to be getting a new gun, probably a .40. Made sure to stay out of University buildings and on the sidewalk for the concert down at the West end. As I'm walking back around the East end around 4:30 I heard another person say "Yeah the NRA couldn't pass up the chance to advertise at this event!" quite loudly. Just ingored them and kept walking, cutting through Newark Shopping Center to get to where my van was parked.
At this point it was just my little brother and I leaving, the rest of the family was staying behind. As I'm walking towards Rita's from Main Street (still close to the guy that made the NRA comment) I see two bike cops circle back on me. They engaged me in conversation and got off their bikes. One asked me "I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask. What you Carrying? Do you have your license?" I didn't bother pointing out that it isn't his job to randomly stop people and ask for licenses. I'm not sure what type he was actually referring to (DL/CCDW), but since I had my keys in my hand already (obviously about to drive a motor vehicle) I said "Yes I do have my license on me (assuming he meant DL) but I don't need one to OC." One of them started going on about how they had a shooting a couple years ago, and they wanted to know who had guns besides them (didn't bother pointing out the B.S. of that either) and he wanted to see my license so just incase something happened they'd have my info. I started the I'd like to leave / Am I being detained? routine, and of course the cop wouldn't answer me directly, always just asking for my license in a different way and giving me another B.S. reason for asking (it isn't very common for people to OC, big event, etc). I told him I preferred to not have my license run because I don't want to be included in any reports (especially if they DO have a shooting - I don't want to be a suspect just because I was OCing). I said I wasn't hiding anything, and don't have any warrants or anything, I just preferred not to give him the license. He obviously didn't like my answer, and said "Well we're allowed to get your info..." to which I replied "You can when I'm being lawfully detained. Am I being detained? I'd like to leave."
At this point he starts reaching for his radio, apparently to get backup. Unfortunately, due to my living arrangement with my parents (essentially free room, board, car insurance, etc.), as well as the fact that I was really getting overheated in the heat and direct sun, I decided to give in at this point. I would have pushed the issue as far as I needed to if it was just me, but since my brother was there I didn't want to have to get into it with the anti-gun dad. I said here's my license just so we can get this over with quickly, but I'd like their names & badge numbers too. He wrote my name & address on a piece of paper, and told me their names were Corporal *something* and *something* (maybe Seargeant?) Meese, they were 2 of the only 4 cops on bikes and the only ones down at that end of the street (apparently NPD doesn't have badge numbers - he showed me the badge, and it doesn't). I say that I'm just going about my law-abiding business and don't like being treated like I'm a criminal, grouped in with the shooter from a couple years ago. He adamantly states he never accused me of being a criminal, and I say "well I sure do appreciate that." He hands my license back and I ask him again if I'm free to leave, at which point he finally says yes and I leave.
So, in the end I was singled out again for OCing and this time had my license demanded. Never got a straight answer during the 3 minutes or so of the stop as to whether or not I was actually detained, and eventually gave in due to family politics. I don't see why I was able to walk around for three and half hours, past numerous cops, and only as I'm *leaving* get stopped, if I was such a supposed threat to the event. I wonder if perhaps the NRA comment guy asked the cops to stop me. Anyways, NPD questioning me for OCing is getting kinda annoying.
Newark Day, June 1st, 2013
My anti-gun dad wasn't pleased to see me OCing again after having the cops ask about it last year but I OC'ed anyways. Arrived at 1pm, walked around alot. Nobody asked me to leave anywhere, I nodded to numerous cops, tried to say "good afternoon" to those I passed closely, even joked with some about how standing outside in their dark color uniforms was a good weight loss plan. Heard one guy start spontaneously talking to his friend about how he was going to be getting a new gun, probably a .40. Made sure to stay out of University buildings and on the sidewalk for the concert down at the West end. As I'm walking back around the East end around 4:30 I heard another person say "Yeah the NRA couldn't pass up the chance to advertise at this event!" quite loudly. Just ingored them and kept walking, cutting through Newark Shopping Center to get to where my van was parked.
At this point it was just my little brother and I leaving, the rest of the family was staying behind. As I'm walking towards Rita's from Main Street (still close to the guy that made the NRA comment) I see two bike cops circle back on me. They engaged me in conversation and got off their bikes. One asked me "I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask. What you Carrying? Do you have your license?" I didn't bother pointing out that it isn't his job to randomly stop people and ask for licenses. I'm not sure what type he was actually referring to (DL/CCDW), but since I had my keys in my hand already (obviously about to drive a motor vehicle) I said "Yes I do have my license on me (assuming he meant DL) but I don't need one to OC." One of them started going on about how they had a shooting a couple years ago, and they wanted to know who had guns besides them (didn't bother pointing out the B.S. of that either) and he wanted to see my license so just incase something happened they'd have my info. I started the I'd like to leave / Am I being detained? routine, and of course the cop wouldn't answer me directly, always just asking for my license in a different way and giving me another B.S. reason for asking (it isn't very common for people to OC, big event, etc). I told him I preferred to not have my license run because I don't want to be included in any reports (especially if they DO have a shooting - I don't want to be a suspect just because I was OCing). I said I wasn't hiding anything, and don't have any warrants or anything, I just preferred not to give him the license. He obviously didn't like my answer, and said "Well we're allowed to get your info..." to which I replied "You can when I'm being lawfully detained. Am I being detained? I'd like to leave."
At this point he starts reaching for his radio, apparently to get backup. Unfortunately, due to my living arrangement with my parents (essentially free room, board, car insurance, etc.), as well as the fact that I was really getting overheated in the heat and direct sun, I decided to give in at this point. I would have pushed the issue as far as I needed to if it was just me, but since my brother was there I didn't want to have to get into it with the anti-gun dad. I said here's my license just so we can get this over with quickly, but I'd like their names & badge numbers too. He wrote my name & address on a piece of paper, and told me their names were Corporal *something* and *something* (maybe Seargeant?) Meese, they were 2 of the only 4 cops on bikes and the only ones down at that end of the street (apparently NPD doesn't have badge numbers - he showed me the badge, and it doesn't). I say that I'm just going about my law-abiding business and don't like being treated like I'm a criminal, grouped in with the shooter from a couple years ago. He adamantly states he never accused me of being a criminal, and I say "well I sure do appreciate that." He hands my license back and I ask him again if I'm free to leave, at which point he finally says yes and I leave.
So, in the end I was singled out again for OCing and this time had my license demanded. Never got a straight answer during the 3 minutes or so of the stop as to whether or not I was actually detained, and eventually gave in due to family politics. I don't see why I was able to walk around for three and half hours, past numerous cops, and only as I'm *leaving* get stopped, if I was such a supposed threat to the event. I wonder if perhaps the NRA comment guy asked the cops to stop me. Anyways, NPD questioning me for OCing is getting kinda annoying.
"Be Prepared"
Thanks for sharing.
I'm terrified of the day I have to deal with this, but I know if I carry it seems to be a matter of when, not if.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to bounce the ideas off others first....not criticizing, just saying stories like this help noobs like me understand what I'm up against.
I'm terrified of the day I have to deal with this, but I know if I carry it seems to be a matter of when, not if.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to bounce the ideas off others first....not criticizing, just saying stories like this help noobs like me understand what I'm up against.
Last edited by WVisHome on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Better luck next time, if you know what I mean.
WVisHome wrote:Thanks for sharing.In the event that you have a bad encounter or your rights have been violated do NOT post the details on this forum until you have spoken with a lawyer. As interesting as it may be to everyone here what you write in a public forum can come back to haunt you if you end up in court by your choice or otherwise.
I'm terrified of the day I have to deal with this, but I know if I carry it seems to be a matter of when, not if.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to bounce the ideas off others first....not criticizing, just saying stories like this help noobs like me understand what I'm up against.
OCing is not, in and of itself, a reason to be detained which I surmise is the reason this encounter was not immediately posted until consideration of how to proceed was made.
All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. -Ayn Rand
Mr.Skellington wrote:In the event that you have a bad encounter or your rights have been violated do NOT post the details on this forum until you have spoken with a lawyer. As interesting as it may be to everyone here what you write in a public forum can come back to haunt you if you end up in court by your choice or otherwise.^this.
OCing is not, in and of itself, a reason to be detained which I surmise is the reason this encounter was not immediately posted until consideration of how to proceed was made.
"Be Prepared"
Wow, a year and a half since this was updated? Time flies! I've still been OCing on occasion, although not as much as before and definitely not as much as I'd like. Mostly just haven't had the opportunity since college and work both still prohibit carry. No encounters of note during the times I did carry though.
I do have an update though - I finally got my CCDW! I had avoided it for a long time due to cost, inconvenience, and general opposition to the process, but finally got some money set aside for it and jumped through the hoops. The main things that justified the cost to me were the ability to carry under a jacket in the winter, ability to carry more easily in a vehicle with passengers, reciprocity agreements with other states, easier retention in crowds, and more discrete carry in some establishments. I figure I'll actually carry much more now. Not saying that I'll violate employer / college policy, just that it'll be much easier in the winter and when out with family. I'll probably still OC quite a bit in the summer and some during the rest of the year though. It'll just be nice to have the option of concealing when desired.
What really surprised me was the turn around time. I dropped off my application on September 23rd, and the letter that was enclosed with it is dated November 26th! Only 2 months! Not bad for NCCo! I thought I was being optimistic in hoping it would get here by Christmas, but this really was unexpected! I'll head up to PA in the next few days to get theirs.
Oh, and side note to those following my vehicle misadventures - my blue minivan (the one that broke a transaxle on the way home from a DELOC meeting, not the van I totaled on the way to a DELOC meeting, or the one that got stuck at Sodbuster's DELOC meeting) has finally bit the dust (part failure + vandalism, part of a 36-tire slashing spree), so you can stop teasing me about it! Yes, it has been replaced with yet another 7-operator tacticool transportation vehicle (minivan). Stay tuned to see what happens to this one (or my OC adventures, which ever)!
I do have an update though - I finally got my CCDW! I had avoided it for a long time due to cost, inconvenience, and general opposition to the process, but finally got some money set aside for it and jumped through the hoops. The main things that justified the cost to me were the ability to carry under a jacket in the winter, ability to carry more easily in a vehicle with passengers, reciprocity agreements with other states, easier retention in crowds, and more discrete carry in some establishments. I figure I'll actually carry much more now. Not saying that I'll violate employer / college policy, just that it'll be much easier in the winter and when out with family. I'll probably still OC quite a bit in the summer and some during the rest of the year though. It'll just be nice to have the option of concealing when desired.
What really surprised me was the turn around time. I dropped off my application on September 23rd, and the letter that was enclosed with it is dated November 26th! Only 2 months! Not bad for NCCo! I thought I was being optimistic in hoping it would get here by Christmas, but this really was unexpected! I'll head up to PA in the next few days to get theirs.
Oh, and side note to those following my vehicle misadventures - my blue minivan (the one that broke a transaxle on the way home from a DELOC meeting, not the van I totaled on the way to a DELOC meeting, or the one that got stuck at Sodbuster's DELOC meeting) has finally bit the dust (part failure + vandalism, part of a 36-tire slashing spree), so you can stop teasing me about it! Yes, it has been replaced with yet another 7-operator tacticool transportation vehicle (minivan). Stay tuned to see what happens to this one (or my OC adventures, which ever)!
"Be Prepared"
Congrats on joing the club. Thanks for posting the timeline for the State to process it.