[MrCoolDale]

Alright, so I'm pretty tired of this guy. This is the third encounter I've had with this cop. I'm not taking it anymore. I'm going to refrain from naming anyone, so we'll refer to him as Officer DB.

Last saturday, Alyssa and I were shopping at Target. I was open carrying. No big deal, except to officer DB who can't seem to keep his personal opinions separate from the law. He didn't say anything to me the entire time we were shopping, but he did keep walking past me, keeping an eye on me. While we were leaving, he stopped me and said:

"I know this is an open carry state, but Target doesn't allow firearms in their stores and we would appreciate it if you left it in your vehicle next time."

I asked him if this was his saying or if the store manager had instructed him to pass on this information. He looked at me, thought for a second, and suggested that we get the store manager. I told him no, that I would talk to the store manager when I wasn't busy, and when he wasn't around. Alyssa and I left, and that's about the story.

I'm curious if you gurus can tell me if he's within the law in this, especially if the store manager tells me that they do allow it. Since the corporate policy is to allow the carrying of firearms in pursuant to local laws, I can't see how he can tell me not to carry in his store. I'm planning to head out there tomorrow to sit down with the manager and talk to him about it. Any suggestions?

[stephpd]

Is this the same LEO that cuffed and stuffed you a year ago? Even if it isn't it sounds like someone's got a hardon for you. 3 times in the sames store? I'd have to guess that he's acting on his own, since he's said OC is legal and he never forced you to leave the store, if it were store policy.

Either way I'd think there is very little that you could do. Most would be a letter to his supervisor about the incidents along with a copy of the corporate policy.

[scampbell3]

Alright, so I'm pretty tired of this guy. This is the third encounter I've had with this cop. I'm not taking it anymore. I'm going to refrain from naming anyone, so we'll refer to him as Officer DB.

Last saturday, Alyssa and I were shopping at Target. I was open carrying. No big deal, except to officer DB who can't seem to keep his personal opinions separate from the law. He didn't say anything to me the entire time we were shopping, but he did keep walking past me, keeping an eye on me. While we were leaving, he stopped me and said:

"I know this is an open carry state, but Target doesn't allow firearms in their stores and we would appreciate it if you left it in your vehicle next time."

I asked him if this was his saying or if the store manager had instructed him to pass on this information. He looked at me, thought for a second, and suggested that we get the store manager. I told him no, that I would talk to the store manager when I wasn't busy, and when he wasn't around. Alyssa and I left, and that's about the story.

I'm curious if you gurus can tell me if he's within the law in this, especially if the store manager tells me that they do allow it. Since the corporate policy is to allow the carrying of firearms in pursuant to local laws, I can't see how he can tell me not to carry in his store. I'm planning to head out there tomorrow to sit down with the manager and talk to him about it. Any suggestions?

Dale, I will offer my opinion on this, so please take it at that. I am not a lawyer.
Officer Douche Bag is not within any right (as I see it) to make a request that you leave private property. It is solely the responsibility and right of the property owner/agent/employee of said property. If the manager asked you to leave, and you did not leave, then Officer Douche Bag would be called to enforce the actions of the property owner (i.e. charges with trespass).

Officer Douche Bag's position does not give him the right to assume private property rights in any case, and is using his 'authority' for of intimidation (in your case). Oppression under the color of law. The fact you questioned Officer Douche Bag on whether the manager did indeed ask you to leave it in the car or leave the store, and his apparent response tells me he was trying to intimidate you. He admitted that is is an open carry state, but obviously doesn't like the idea, added to that, you have "proven" him and his actions as wrong in the past especially in the presence of his co-workers. It seems he attempted to use his 'authority' to oppress and intimidate you hoping you would yield to his demands.

Good Job Dale.

It seems there are still some in LE that need to be schooled.

Chip

BTW, where is this Target?, I think I need to do more Christmas shopping..

[photog]

Sorry to hear about it Dale!!

Sounds like you handled it the best way possible though!

IANAL, nor do I play one on TV, but it would seem to me that if the store policy allows it, and the store manager did not ask the officer to intervene, then Officer DoucheBag does not have any authority to ask you anything, after all, the store is private property. The only exception may be if he feels that a crime is imminent, i.e. you are acting irrationally, or causing a public disturbance.

I'm assuming that he is an LEO, not just a rent-a -cop. Did you by any chance get Officer DirtBalls name or badge number?? As it has been posted on this forum many times before, most LEO's do a great job, but there are a few bad apples that just like to use their position to bust balls. They should be be reported to their superiors and possibly have civil charges filed if multiple offenses have occurred. (as it sounds in your case)

IMO, It would be a good idea to get a copy of the corporate policy and speak to the store manager. Good Luck!!


EDIT: Nevermind.... Well said Chip!!

[Boots]

... Last saturday, Alyssa and I were shopping at Target. I was open carrying. No big deal, except to officer DB who can't seem to keep his personal opinions separate from the law. He didn't say anything to me the entire time we were shopping, but he did keep walking past me, keeping an eye on me. While we were leaving, he stopped me and said:

"I know this is an open carry state, but Target doesn't allow firearms in their stores and we would appreciate it if you left it in your vehicle next time."

Hmmm... just who is "we"?

Dale, you don't make it clear just who this guy is. Was he in uniform? Is he employed by Target? Does he work for NCC, or is he with the SP? Was he there on business, or just doing his own shopping?

You were right to decline speaking with a manager with him present because he would have intimidated the manager into agreeing with whatever he said.

More info would help us understand the situation, but the words 'Am I being detained?' and 'Am I free to go?' may have been all you needed.

[MrCoolDale]

Sorry guys, I guess I missed some key information. This is the Target by my house. It's at the corner of 202 and Naamans Road, up here by claymont. Though it's a wilmington address. And this is the same DSP Officer that arrested me, about this same time, last year. That was the Same Cop reference. Sorry about the confusion.

I know the Target Corporate policy on the matter, as I worked Target Security for quite some time. My plan is to go to Target tomorrow around noon, well dressed and unarmed, to sit down with the store manager about the matter. It is my understanding that the police officer can not act on behalf of the owner of the property until asked to do so by the owner or a representative, or if there is a crime being committed. Is this correct? I'm thinking about filing a formal complaint to his superior on the matter. I'm just sick and tired of this guy. I've had 3 run-ins with him, and anytime I see him, he just stares me down. Alyssa has seen the way this guy talks to me and treats me in general.

I really can't stand it when a police officer acts like this. It's so childish, and cops are supposed to be above that kind of misconduct.

Also, if anyone has any phone numbers, I'm looking for a good lawyer to help me in a case against this guy and the department. I never did get decent legal counsel about the whole illegal apprehension/search & seizure thing. I think now is a good time to talk to a good lawyer.

[VWpilot]

Also, if anyone has any phone numbers, I'm looking for a good lawyer to help me in a case against this guy and the department. I never did get decent legal counsel about the whole illegal apprehension/search & seizure thing. I think now is a good time to talk to a good lawyer.

Dale, sorry to hear about this. IMO, the DSP officer acted outside of his responsibilities & outside the law. Good luck with this. My lawyer's info is below:

Amanda L.H. Brinton: 994-4049 / 521 North West St, Wilmington, DE

[Jason]

What did the manager say (all managers) ? I'm sure the LEO can change the Managers mind and next time you may be in trouble ( He may talk to all of the managers till he can convince one of them to act as the Leo suggested.). Hence , Leo: I warned you last time. now you are trespassing kinda thing, Just a thought. Manager Policy may trump store policy.

[dave_in_delaware]

Target is private property. They can set whatever firearms policy they want:

If store policy allows firearms, then he has no right to ask you to leave or keep it in your car.

If store policy prohibits firearms, he can ask you to leave or keep it in the car. Only if you refuse can he charge you w/ criminal trespass.

At least that's the way I see the law. IANAL though.

[Tony T]

Sorry to hear you're still going through all this. I can't wait to hear the results of your meeting with Target.