If you have a particular encounter with another citizen or LEO, post it here.
 #45665  by astro_wanabe
 
Boots wrote:
astro_wanabe wrote:... For better or worse, I probably would have ended up saying something to the effect of:
"Because it's my Constitutional right and lawful under Delaware law. I am not resisting however I do not consent to any searches or seizures of my person or property. I have nothing further to discuss with you. Am I free to go?"
The bold part is good, but the 'nothing further' part might be received as confrontational.
Yeah on second thought it does kinda come off that way. Perhaps it would be better to skip straight to asking if I can leave. The bold part I picked up off one of those "what to do if you get stopped by the cops" vids. I think it was actually done by the ACLU.

I don't actually carry yet (as mentioned elsewhere, due to funding) but I do practice going through the motions for drawing / presenting to get the "muscle memory" started, in case I ever need to use these skills I want them well ingrained. I know some people have spent a lot of time trying to come up with the perfect wording for what to say to the police if they are involved in a SD situation. Trying to memorize a paragraph of legalese just seems counterproductive. For any random stops I'll just stick with the bold line above, and ask if I'm free to go / being detained. For a SD situation basically I've just got 2 lines:

1. Shouting STOP while drawing, because I don't want to say the first thing that pops into my head and I probably won't have time for much more.
2. After the cops arrive, just saying that "I was in fear for my life or the life of another, HE/SHE is the BG, please look for XXX evidence (i.e. he shot at me, so they look for casings, or he had a knife so if he ditched it they'll hopefully find it)."

To the OP, that sounds like a fairly odd stop! He stopped you at gunpoint, questioned if you were part of a protest, then complemented your gun :?: What if you had been part of a protest? I wonder if he has an extended version of "the talk" ready to go.
 #45666  by capnpirate
 
Yeesh... I'm not even an OC'er yet and I'm already getting frustrated over the persecution you guys endure. I only hope I never have to deal with this kind of intolerance. I've already begun to rehearse my responses to the police should I be confronted by them.

Side note, if you guys have android phones, there's an APP I'd love you ALL to download called OpenWatch.

http://www.openwatch.net/

Basically, it covertly records video or audio and then allows it to be uploaded immediately to the above website for viewing and to be used as evidence, should your situations necessitate it. I have it on my front screen and rest assured, before I even say a thing, the video recorder will be going! Hopefully I'll never need it.
 #45670  by Dr. Eastwood
 
astro_wanabe wrote: For a SD situation basically I've just got 2 lines:

1. Shouting STOP while drawing, because I don't want to say the first thing that pops into my head and I probably won't have time for much more.
2. After the cops arrive, just saying that "I was in fear for my life or the life of another, HE/SHE is the BG, please look for XXX evidence (i.e. he shot at me, so they look for casings, or he had a knife so if he ditched it they'll hopefully find it)."

To the OP, that sounds like a fairly odd stop! He stopped you at gunpoint, questioned if you were part of a protest, then complemented your gun :?: What if you had been part of a protest? I wonder if he has an extended version of "the talk" ready to go.
In SD I think you should let them take the evidence and then give your statement while in the presence of your legal representative. Don't let your guard down until the first LEO tells you to put the gun down. And don't worry about making a sound, if you' have to draw your weapon it's already been established why you're doing so.

capnpirate wrote:Side note, if you guys have android phones, there's an APP I'd love you ALL to download called OpenWatch.

http://www.openwatch.net/

Basically, it covertly records video or audio and then allows it to be uploaded immediately to the above website for viewing and to be used as evidence, should your situations necessitate it. I have it on my front screen and rest assured, before I even say a thing, the video recorder will be going! Hopefully I'll never need it.

Would love to get an Android, but I spend more money on my guns :roll:
 #45671  by capnpirate
 
astro_wanabe wrote:1. Shouting STOP while drawing, because I don't want to say the first thing that pops into my head and I probably won't have time for much more.
2. After the cops arrive, just saying that "I was in fear for my life or the life of another, HE/SHE is the BG, please look for XXX evidence (i.e. he shot at me, so they look for casings, or he had a knife so if he ditched it they'll hopefully find it)."
I'm going to wholeheartedly disagree with you on 2. more than 80% of the time, the first person to call for police wins the argument, whether it's a friend of the goblin you off'd or a bystander who mistook you for the aggressor, so this is what I've been told by a student of the law:

1. Holster your weapon and if you have a CCDW, cover it up.
2. Call the police and say exactly this "Help! Help! I'm being attacked! I'm at <insert location here>! Help!" and hang up. If you get a call back, do not answer. Please note the present tense of "being attacked" not "been attacked".
3. When the police arrive, the first thing you say is "Help! He's been shot! I think he's dying! Help!" and point to the goblin. Of course, you'll have to do your best to feign concern.
4. You will be questioned, but you do have your 5a right to demand legal counsel before answering any questions. If you decide to waive your 5a rights, always answer as impersonally as possible.

NOTE: Do not say "He attacked me first", "I had to shoot or else he'd have killed me", "I didn't do anything wrong", "he tried to make a victim out of me", "I think he fired a couple times, but he missed me", so on and so forth. Answer, instead, with "He was waving his <weapon> around wildly", "He fired off some rounds", "he was obviously emotionally disturbed", so on and so forth. It will take their focus off of you and keep it on the dead/dying/injured goblin.

I don't know the police procedure for dealing with a shooting, perhaps Dave will be able to better expound, so it may be lawful for them to disarm you and enter your firearm as evidence in the investigation. I don't know how it'd go if they don't even know that you have a firearm or if you even have to admit to carrying one. It isn't perjury until you're on the stand. ;) Once again, I'll defer this one to Dave if he knows the answer and feels like answering.
 #45672  by astro_wanabe
 
capnpirate wrote:Basically, it covertly records video or audio and then allows it to be uploaded immediately to the above website for viewing and to be used as evidence, should your situations necessitate it.
Make sure you know the laws regarding audio and video recording BEFORE deciding to do this. Different states will obviously have different laws. In some states you have to get permission from EVERYone in the conversation BEFORE recording, in others only you have to be aware of the recording. IIRC, recording a conversation you are not a party too is generally a no-no everywhere. I think Delaware is a one-party consent state, but only for audio recordings in face to face situations. When you record over a phone line you need consent from ALL parties, and you can violate state wiretapping laws as well as federal laws if the call crosses state lines. Just make sure you look these things up and confirm for yourself first - otherwise your "evidence" might be used at your own trial.
 #45673  by Boots
 
capnpirate wrote:... It isn't perjury until you're on the stand. ;) ....
Two comments.

1) Make absolutely double-dog-damn sure your use of a firearm was justified.

2) Never lie to a cop. Keep it short and stick to the truth. Any lie will destroy your credibility.
 #45674  by Delta2Echo
 
...ya know, it has been about 5 or 6 months since my run-in with MPD. I have contacted an attorney, but was advised that unless I can get someone else to come forward and testify that they also had an issue with the department regarding the legality of open carrying, the case probably wouldn't get very far. The specific term he used was something immunity, negligent immunity or something along those lines. It basically meant that the department would claim that they didn't know any better and it wouldn't happen again, even though it had happened and they did know better.

It really bugs me a civilian only has to break the law once to get charged, and we can't say 'oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know. It won't happen again.' A cop breaks laws, violates a person's rights, and even goes as far as what I would consider a threat...and nothing happens unless we can prove its a repeat issue. So all I can do is file a complaint which really isn't going to do a damn thing...and doesn't make me feel like 'justice' has been done or whatever. It may even bring me more problems down the road, like when I start filing for my CDW permit which will be pretty soon. :banghead: :banghead:
 #45675  by astro_wanabe
 
Dr. Eastwood wrote:In SD I think you should let them take the evidence and then give your statement while in the presence of your legal representative. Don't let your guard down until the first LEO tells you to put the gun down.
Generally agreed, however if rounds were fired at me I want those rounds and casings recovered. If I wait untill the next day to make a statement those casings and my defense could have washed away with an overnight rain. And my statement to the officers would be extremely short and immediately followed with "I'm invoking my right to remain silent and I want to speak with my lawyer."
Dr. Eastwood wrote:And don't worry about making a sound, if you' have to draw your weapon it's already been established why you're doing so.
Except it probably won't be established in the view of witnesses who would only notice me drawing and firing. Not only does the word STOP clearly indicate I am a victim, it also (and maybe more importantly) keeps me from saying something stupid that I would have to defend later.
 #45679  by Dr. Eastwood
 
astro_wanabe wrote: Except it probably won't be established in the view of witnesses who would only notice me drawing and firing. Not only does the word STOP clearly indicate I am a victim, it also (and maybe more importantly) keeps me from saying something stupid that I would have to defend later.
Would it be "Go ahead, make my day.."? :D
 #45680  by Mr.Skellington
 
I'm getting tired of stops without probable cause. But the worst part is being drawn down on.


I have a serious problem with being at gunpoint. Anyone's gun!

I can't come up with a good reason as to why an officer couldn't:
A. Have their pistol at low ready
B. Have gun holstered hand ready to draw
C. Drive on since they have no probable cause for a stop

Anyone of these would be better than being at gunpoint. I would like to know what the requirements or policy's for the presentation of lethal force is for NCCPD. This is :censored: and its getting out of hand. If the mere possession of a firearm is not enough to fulfill probable cause of a crime then it is absolutely not enough to justify drawing upon that same individual.