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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Posts: 1028
Location: New Castle, DE
From what I read, you handled the situation fantastically. If you can hold your head up knowing that you did what needed to be done and got your family home safely, then I have no suggestions or critiques. Anyone can second guess your actions, but in the end it was you and your family on the line. Stay safe out there.

_________________
Basic Gun Safety by Jeff Cooper:
1) All guns are always loaded
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you aren't willing to destroy
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
4) Be sure of your target and what is beyond it


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Glad to hear you made it out of this situation unscathed, OP.

As for the officer suggesting that the gun not be on the dash... If you've got passengers and you don't have a CCW then you're probably stuck with having it on the dash in order to comply with the law.


Another thing I wanted to mention was speaking with the police. It comes down to personal preference but everything I've learned suggests that you should never speak with the police without a lawyer present. You could unintentionally get yourself into trouble by speaking without representation even if you are in fact innocent.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 2
Glad you're okay. A dash cam would have helped here.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:02 pm
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Location: Pencader Hundred
dean wrote:
...
Another thing I wanted to mention was speaking with the police. It comes down to personal preference but everything I've learned suggests that you should never speak with the police without a lawyer present. You could unintentionally get yourself into trouble by speaking without representation even if you are in fact innocent.
In this case I disagree. Any event you are involved in that includes the presence of a gun requires you to inform the police ASAP--and make sure you are the first one to do so! Something like "I was threatened by _<the action>_ and believed I must take immediate steps to protect myself" is a good start. A short & concise statement of your complaint would be appropriate. At this point, to say "I was threatened but I'm not talking to you without my lawyer present" does not seem appropriate to me.

Had this event happened to me, I probably would not have had passengers present to vouch for me, and the meeting in the driveway would probably have turned out much differently. Prompt notification of the police concerning the matter can only work in my favor to counter the lies the police will soon be hearing from the other side ("brandishing" is always one of their favorites). There is a time for lawyers to get involved, but as a plaintiff you should be able to make an initial short & concise statement of the facts without a lawyer (IMHO). Any time after the initial statement, you can invoke your right to remain silent and have a lawyer present as you see fit, but they may be offering you overnight accomodations until they are comfortable with the answers to their questions.

IANAL and YMMV... ;)

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-Boots
Have Gun—Will Travel

Si vis pacem, para bellum


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Boots wrote:
In this case I disagree. Any event you are involved in that includes the presence of a gun requires you to inform the police ASAP--and make sure you are the first one to do so! Something like "I was threatened by _<the action>_ and believed I must take immediate steps to protect myself" is a good start. A short & concise statement of your complaint would be appropriate. At this point, to say "I was threatened but I'm not talking to you without my lawyer present" does not seem appropriate to me.


Right, but in this scenario OP didn't have the chance to initiate contact with the police; the police initiated contact with him. In this scenario you're not the plaintiff, you're the defendant.

In the event that you had time to initiate contact with the police you could still contact a lawyer first.

Like with most situations it's personal preference when it comes to how many freedoms you're willing to give up in exchange for avoiding prolonging an uncomfortable situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Location: Pencader Hundred
dean wrote:
... but in this scenario OP didn't have the chance to initiate contact with the police; the police initiated contact with him. In this scenario you're not the plaintiff, you're the defendant. ....
Did you miss the following?...
The OP wrote:
I tried to calm them down on the ride home, and it took about 20 min for us to arrive.
Later the OP wrote:
... keep in mind that in the heat of the moment all I was thinking about was getting my girls home safely. I wasn't going to stop that truck until I got home. ....
He did have the choice of being the plaintiff or the defendant. But this time, since he had witnesses to back him up, it worked out for him.

The better thing for him to do right after the motorcyclist left would have been to pull over to the side of the road and call the cops. The 20 minutes it took him to drive home allowed the other guy to be the accuser and placed him on the defensive. Again, he was fortunate to have witnesses available to back him up. He might not be so lucky next time and be alone in his car while other drivers who witnessed the event scatter like roaches when the light comes on, leaving him with zero witnesses. The possible consequences of being the defendant should not be overlooked because they could be severe and result in the loss of precious rights.

_________________
-Boots
Have Gun—Will Travel

Si vis pacem, para bellum


Last edited by Boots on Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 450
This is why after any situation where I feel the need to draw, even if I dont.. I make a report of what happened that set off my "shoot-that-mother-f*****" instinct to police. Information sharing protects everyone.

_________________
"Go in there! Get something done! And if you die, die the F***ing hero! I am sick of these internet warriors saying 'oh well I'm not going to protect them.. I'm just worried about me and my family'... F*** YOU!" - James Yeager


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 450
Boots wrote:
dean wrote:
... but in this scenario OP didn't have the chance to initiate contact with the police; the police initiated contact with him. In this scenario you're not the plaintiff, you're the defendant. ....
Did you miss the following?...
The OP wrote:
I tried to calm them down on the ride home, and it took about 20 min for us to arrive.
Later the OP wrote:
... keep in mind that in the heat of the moment all I was thinking about was getting my girls home safely. I wasn't going to stop that truck until I got home. ....
He did have the choice of being the plaintiff or the defendant. But this time, since he had witnesses to back him up, it worked out for him.

The better thing for him to do right after the motorcyclist left would have been to pull over to the side of the road and call the cops. The 20 minutes it took him to drive home allowed the other guy to be the accuser and placed him on the defensive. Again, he was fortunate to have witnesses available to back him up. He might not be so lucky next time and be alone in his car while other drivers who witnessed the event scatter like roaches when the light comes on, leaving him with zero witnesses. The possible consequences should not be overlooked because they could be severe and result in the loss of precious rights.


Not really.. if one has no witnesses.. no one does. Hearsay is inapplicable in court, which is why his family's word is not good enough to pursue charges on the motorcyclist.

_________________
"Go in there! Get something done! And if you die, die the F***ing hero! I am sick of these internet warriors saying 'oh well I'm not going to protect them.. I'm just worried about me and my family'... F*** YOU!" - James Yeager


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Location: Pencader Hundred
spillanej wrote:
... Not really.. if one has no witnesses.. no one does. ....
That's an interesting statement!

Bad guys love to hang in groups, so it might be just your word against several of them.

My recommendation is to not take chances. Make sure you're the first one to contact the cops.

Quote:
Hearsay is inapplicable in court, which is why his family's word is not good enough to pursue charges on the motorcyclist.
Why do you refer to his daughters' testimony as "hearsay"? They were in the truck with him.

_________________
-Boots
Have Gun—Will Travel

Si vis pacem, para bellum


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 Post subject: Re: Saturday evening encounter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 450
Boots wrote:
spillanej wrote:
... Not really.. if one has no witnesses.. no one does. ....
That's an interesting statement!

Bad guys love to hang in groups, so it might be just your word against several of them.

My recommendation is to not take chances. Make sure you're the first one to contact the cops.

Quote:
Hearsay is inapplicable in court, which is why his family's word is not good enough to pursue charges on the motorcyclist.
Why do you refer to his daughters' testimony as "hearsay"? They were in the truck with him.


Because technically they were involved. An eye witness is a 3rd party, the guy in t he bmw behind you, not the people in your car.

_________________
"Go in there! Get something done! And if you die, die the F***ing hero! I am sick of these internet warriors saying 'oh well I'm not going to protect them.. I'm just worried about me and my family'... F*** YOU!" - James Yeager


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